Posted on 11/03/2007 5:03:12 PM PDT by annalex
Inspiring conversion testimony for your enjoyment.
I have some of Mr. Thigpen’s books. He seems to be a very nice man.
Well written, covers a lot of ground; thanks for posting this. Enjoyed it very much.
Excellent post and story. Thanks for posting it!
Bishop Steenson’s Statement to the House [of Bishops: Episcopal (TEC) to Catholic]
Bp. Steenson's Letter to his clergy on his conversion to the Catholic Church
Bishop Steenson Will Become a Roman Catholic
Married man considers turn as Catholic priest
Pavarotti returns to the Catholic faith before dying
Searching For Authority (A Methodist minister finds himself surprised by Truth!)
Why I Returned to the Catholic Church. Part VI: The Biblical Reality (Al Kresta)
Why I Returned to the Catholic Church. Part V: The Catholics and the Pope(Al Kresta)
The Hail Mary of a Protestant (A true story)
Why I Returned to the Catholic Church. Part IV: Crucifix and Altar(Al Kresta)
Why I Returned to the Catholic Church. Part III: Tradition and Church (Al Kresta)
Why I Returned to the Catholic Church. Part II: Doubts (Al Kresta)
Conversion Story - Rusty Tisdale (former Pentecostal)
Why I Returned to the Catholic Church. Part I: Darkness(Al Kresta)
Conversion Story - Matt Enloe (former Baptist) [prepare to be amazed!]
THE ORTHODOX REVIVAL IN RUSSIA
Conversion Story - David Finkelstein (former Jew)
Conversion Story - John Weidner (former Evangelical)
12 Reasons I Joined the Catholic Church
Conversion Story - Tom Hunt
The Tide Is Turning Toward Catholicism: The Converts
John Calvin Made Me Catholic
Journey Home - May 21 - Neil Babcox (former Presbyterian) - A minister encounters Mary
Going Catholic - Six journeys to Rome
My (Imminent) Reception into the Roman Catholic Church
A Convert's Pilgrimage [Christopher Cuddy]
From Pastor to Parishioner: My Love for Christ Led Me Home (to the Catholic Church) [Drake McCalister]
Lutheran professor of philosophy prepares to enter Catholic Church
Patty Bonds (former Baptist and sister of Dr. James White) to appear on The Journey Home - May 7
Pastor and Flock Become Catholics
Why Converts Choose Catholicism
From Calvinist to Catholic
The journey back - Dr. Beckwith explains his reasons for returning to the Catholic Church
Famous Homosexual Italian Author Returned to the Church Before Dying of AIDS
Dr. Francis Beckwith Returns To Full Communion With The Church
Catholic Converts - Stephen K. Ray (former Evangelical)
Catholic Converts - Malcolm Muggeridge
Catholic Converts - Richard John Neuhaus
Catholic Converts - Avery Cardinal Dulles
Catholic Converts - Israel (Eugenio) Zolli - Chief Rabbi of Rome
Catholic Converts - Robert H. Bork , American Jurist (Catholic Caucus)
Catholic Converts - Marcus Grodi
The Scott Hahn Conversion Story
FORMER PENTECOSTAL RELATES MIRACLE THAT OCCURRED WITH THE PRECIOUS BLOOD
Interview with Roy Schoeman - A Jewish Convert
Conversion bump!
This was the pivital point in my wife's conversion.
Thank you very much for the ping. I would agree with your wife that charismatic worship (from what little I know of it) is probably not the way to go. They appear to me to focus much more on experience, and much less on scripture. I am very glad she has found a Christian home.
[from the article:] The congregations I'd been part of were for the most part assuming that they had recovered a New Testament model of strictly spontaneous worship, local government, and Bible-only teaching. But the early Church, I found, was in reality liturgical in worship; trans-local and hierarchical in government; and dependent on a body of sacred Tradition that included the Scripture, yet stretched far beyond it as well.
I read the Wiki entry for spontaneous worship, and it was associated with charismatic services. It didn't sound like anything I've ever seen in a church service. (Granted, I have very little experience outside of my own SBC church.) In any event, it didn't sound like something I would want to be a part of.
The local government part I do agree with, however, I don't know where the claim by the author that early churches were governed in a hierarchal system comes from. I thought the very first churches were basically autonomous. (Is that right, WM?)
And as for Bible-only teaching, we use Bible-authority-only teaching. That does not preclude the use of other materials, as long as they are consistent with the Bible. Therefore, all tradition is not bad. In my church we employ the man-made tradition of the altar call. However, our faith is not DEPENDENT on any man-made tradition. That dependence itself is wholly man-made. For example:
Mark 7:8 : You have let go of the commands of God and are holding on to the traditions of men ."
To me, this verse does NOT say that all traditions are wrong. It just says that we cannot replace the scriptures with such traditions. Therefore, if there is any dependence on traditions that contradict scripture, then scripture has been laid aside. Re-interpreting scripture to match the tradition is not a legitimate practice because that would have man trumping God's word.
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It seems to me that the author used his charismatic background to arrive at Catholicism. I'm not saying that makes sense, but I would not recommend using the charismatic "way" to arrive at anything. :) It really doesn't surprise me at all that he found nothing of lasting value in Bible-believing Protestant churches. They are not experiential-based. Throughout the whole testimony, the author returns again and again to his experiential base. Apparently, he found something in Catholicism that matched that.
I've never actually drawn any connections between Catholicism and experiential faith so I would be interested in your comments. In addition, I noted in the testimony that the author spoke approvingly of "Charismatic Catholics". I've never heard of them. Are they legit?
A good source for that are the letters of St. Ignatius of Antioch, as well as of course the letters of St. Paul to the Corinthians.
Chapter 8. Let nothing be done without the bishop. See that you all follow the bishop, even as Jesus Christ does the Father, and the presbytery as you would the apostles; and reverence the deacons, as being the institution of God. Let no man do anything connected with the Church without the bishop. Let that be deemed a proper Eucharist, which is [administered] either by the bishop, or by one to whom he has entrusted it. Wherever the bishop shall appear, there let the multitude [of the people] also be; even as, wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church. It is not lawful without the bishop either to baptize or to celebrate a love-feast; but whatsoever he shall approve of, that is also pleasing to God, so that everything that is done may be secure and valid.Chapter 9. Honour the bishop. Moreover, it is in accordance with reason that we should return to soberness [of conduct], and, while yet we have opportunity, exercise repentance towards God. It is well to reverence both God and the bishop. He who honours the bishop has been honoured by God; he who does anything without the knowledge of the bishop, does [in reality] serve the devil. Let all things, then, abound to you through grace, for you are worthy. You have refreshed me in all things, and Jesus Christ [shall refresh] you. You have loved me when absent as well as when present. May God recompense you, for whose sake, while you endure all things, you shall attain unto Him.
(The Epistle of Ignatius to the Smyrnaeans)
16 Wherefore I beseech you, be ye followers of me, as I also am of Christ. 17 For this cause have I sent to you Timothy, who is my dearest son and faithful in the Lord; who will put you in mind of my ways, which are in Christ Jesus; as I teach every where in every church. 18 As if I would not come to you, so some are puffed up. 19 But I will come to you shortly, if the Lord will: and will know, not the speech of them that are puffed up, but the power. 20 For the kingdom of God is not in speech, but in power. 21 What will you? shall I come to you with a rod; or in charity, and in the spirit of meekness?
(1 Cor 4)
27 Now you are the body of Christ, and members of member. 28 And God indeed hath set some in the church; first apostles, secondly prophets, thirdly doctors; after that miracles; then the graces of healing, helps, governments, kinds of tongues, interpretations of speeches. 29 Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all doctors? 30 Are all workers of miracles? Have all the grace of healing? Do all speak with tongues? Do all interpret?
(Ibid. 12)
"Charismatic Catholics". I've never heard of them. Are they legit?
Yes; this is a movement out of the Theological Seminary in Steubenville, OH. I know little of them. Their signature Practice are healing masses.
A good source for that are the letters of St. Ignatius of Antioch, as well as of course the letters of St. Paul to the Corinthians.
Well sure, we have the hierarchy of my pastor and staff members in my church. But in the very early days, did one Bishop control a whole region of churches? Was there a centralized Church government in Rome from the beginning? That just doesn't sound right to me.
for when I’m not supposed to be sleeping
They were. The churches selected their Elders and Deacons. It was after the Apostolic Era ended that there began to be a push for a hierarchal system. The justification for this was to combat heresy.
As with all things that man does to try and improve on God's plan it didn't work out.
Then why does St. Paul direct Titus to "appoint presbyters in every town"?
Maybe that "push" started with the Apostles themselves.
One bishop ran the show in one large town. As the faith spread, a bishop had more and more presybters (elders, priests) helping them, and they delegated more and more duties to them.
The idea that one town would have more than one congregation (or parish), with one (or more) presbyters serving each one, developed later on.
In the early days, of course, there were only enough Christians for a single congregation in even the biggest towns, and few or none in the smaller towns and countryside. (Our word "pagan" comes from a Latin term equating roughly to "country bumpkin".)
“Christ, in His beauty, draws me to Him”. - Jacopone da Todi
His perfect Sacrifice is the beauty I’m refering to here, not that it’s “beautiful” to see Him on the Cross, broken and bloodied. (Just to avoid any confusion) The beauty of Him, in all His Being, is, dare I say, “irresistable” to those who seek an answer to the mystery of life? Perhaps this is the method by which the Father “draws” those that come to Him? (cf. John 6:44) The Beauty of His Son.
Through the Son, the Father draws.
Just something I’ve been thinking about for a while.
The issue is whether the Early Church was hierarchical, not whether hierarchies also exist in Protestant settings. Also note that the quotes I gave you not simply set up admninistrative structures: they set up a liturgical and doctrinal structure as well, centered around the Eucharist and obedient to the bishop in all matters.
After St. Peter we had a short-lived papacy of St. Linus of which we know next to nothing; he was succeeded by St. Clement who was controlling things in Corinth over the heads of the local bishops, so definitely we had a papacy in the person of St. Clement, while the papacy of St. Peter is clear from the scripture.
Here's a link: The Epistle of Ignatius to the Trallians
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