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To: Forest Keeper
the very first churches were basically autonomous

A good source for that are the letters of St. Ignatius of Antioch, as well as of course the letters of St. Paul to the Corinthians.

Chapter 8. Let nothing be done without the bishop. See that you all follow the bishop, even as Jesus Christ does the Father, and the presbytery as you would the apostles; and reverence the deacons, as being the institution of God. Let no man do anything connected with the Church without the bishop. Let that be deemed a proper Eucharist, which is [administered] either by the bishop, or by one to whom he has entrusted it. Wherever the bishop shall appear, there let the multitude [of the people] also be; even as, wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church. It is not lawful without the bishop either to baptize or to celebrate a love-feast; but whatsoever he shall approve of, that is also pleasing to God, so that everything that is done may be secure and valid.

Chapter 9. Honour the bishop. Moreover, it is in accordance with reason that we should return to soberness [of conduct], and, while yet we have opportunity, exercise repentance towards God. It is well to reverence both God and the bishop. He who honours the bishop has been honoured by God; he who does anything without the knowledge of the bishop, does [in reality] serve the devil. Let all things, then, abound to you through grace, for you are worthy. You have refreshed me in all things, and Jesus Christ [shall refresh] you. You have loved me when absent as well as when present. May God recompense you, for whose sake, while you endure all things, you shall attain unto Him.

(The Epistle of Ignatius to the Smyrnaeans)

16 Wherefore I beseech you, be ye followers of me, as I also am of Christ. 17 For this cause have I sent to you Timothy, who is my dearest son and faithful in the Lord; who will put you in mind of my ways, which are in Christ Jesus; as I teach every where in every church. 18 As if I would not come to you, so some are puffed up. 19 But I will come to you shortly, if the Lord will: and will know, not the speech of them that are puffed up, but the power. 20 For the kingdom of God is not in speech, but in power. 21 What will you? shall I come to you with a rod; or in charity, and in the spirit of meekness?

(1 Cor 4)

27 Now you are the body of Christ, and members of member. 28 And God indeed hath set some in the church; first apostles, secondly prophets, thirdly doctors; after that miracles; then the graces of healing, helps, governments, kinds of tongues, interpretations of speeches. 29 Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all doctors? 30 Are all workers of miracles? Have all the grace of healing? Do all speak with tongues? Do all interpret?

(Ibid. 12)

"Charismatic Catholics". I've never heard of them. Are they legit?

Yes; this is a movement out of the Theological Seminary in Steubenville, OH. I know little of them. Their signature Practice are healing masses.

10 posted on 11/05/2007 6:38:03 PM PST by annalex (http://www.catecheticsonline.com/CatenaAurea-Luke14.php)
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To: annalex; jo kus; wmfights
FK: "... the very first churches were basically autonomous."

A good source for that are the letters of St. Ignatius of Antioch, as well as of course the letters of St. Paul to the Corinthians.

Well sure, we have the hierarchy of my pastor and staff members in my church. But in the very early days, did one Bishop control a whole region of churches? Was there a centralized Church government in Rome from the beginning? That just doesn't sound right to me.

11 posted on 11/06/2007 1:05:06 AM PST by Forest Keeper (It is a joy to me to know that God had my number, before He created numbers.)
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