12 Reasons I Joined the Catholic Church

Triumph of Truth ^ | 7/29/2007 | Tim Cooper

[Aquinasfan]

Part of the problem with American society is that we want to define the truth. This is why Protestant Churches flourish here.

And the prevalence of hyper-individualism in America is largely the result of Sola-Scriptura Protestantism. It's no accident that most Americans confuse freedom with license. True freedom is the power to do good, not to do whatever I please.

[Cicero]

I liked what I’ve had time to read, and will finish it later.

I have read most of Scott Hahn and others from his sort of background, and so I am familiar with many of these journey stories. Your picture of the idiot nun and other born Catholics who don’t seem to know or value what they have been given, by contrast with the thoughtfulness of these faithful Evangelical converts, strikes me as one of the ways that God is renewing His Church here in America, as He has done so often in various ways over the centuries.

[redhead]

Thank you. Saved to Favorites.

[CatholicTim]

Thank you for your kind words.

I agree that St. Ignatius of Antioch lays out the Church’s position for both the Eucharist and valid Orders so clearly in his writings.

[Iscool]

In response to post 75...I was considering which way to go in response but changed my mind altogether...

I have never seen such a perversion of scripture all at one time...You removed words of scripture to prove your point...You added words to the scripture to make your point...

You added your own private interpretation to each verse and the interpretation usually has nothing to do with the context of the verses...

No point in discussing what the bible DOESN’T say...

[CatholicTim]

I am sorry if my subjective interpretation of scripture does not match your subjective interpretation. You are welcome to have your own interpretation. It’s a free country.

However, you should spend a few minutes with a Church of Christ minister and try to convince him of the truths of Calvinism. The Churches of Christ are very anti-Catholic but they also teach that Calvinism is heresy. That is the problem with Sola Scriptura. Authority rests only with the individual. All biblical truth becomes subjective.

Again you have failed to mention one verse that says “future sins” are forgiven when we accept Jesus as our Lord and Savior. Such a passage does not exist.

In fact, Romans 8:1-4 is an excellent point of demonstrating the Catholic notion that we have to persevere, our salvation is not assured.

Romans 8:3-4:

“That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.”

We are instucted to “walk not after the flesh but after the Spirit”. That means we say “yes” to the Spirit in every action and every decision.

You have also failed to identify ONE CHRISTIAN that believed this heresy before Calvin. Just give me ONE!

To keep the discussion simple, let me just mention three passages. Please give me your interpretation of these passages:

Phil 2:12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

Hebrews 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, 27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. 28 He that despised Moses’ law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: 29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

1 Corinthians 9:27 But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.

There you go. I added nothing or removed nothing.

God bless you in your faith journey. Hey, it took me 22 years for the lightbulb to finally turn on. Jesus didn’t say “on this rock I will write my Bible to leave for all future generations to interpret how they want to”. Jesus didn’t say “on this rock I will build my churches that all teach contradictory doctrines based on private interpretation”.

[Iscool]

Jesus didn’t say “on this rock I will build my churches that all teach contradictory doctrines based on private interpretation”.

No one is more guilty of private interpretation of the scriptures than the magisterium of your church...

Again you have failed to mention one verse that says “future sins” are forgiven when we accept Jesus as our Lord and Savior. Such a passage does not exist

Rom 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

We are righteous because of faith (only)...

Rom 4:8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.

Does this verse need intrepation, or can you believe what it actually says???

Rom 4:13 For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.

You get that??? Or do you need your church to interpret it for you???

Rom 4:14 For if they which are of the law be heirs, faith is made void, and the promise made of none effect:

That's you, isn't it??? You gotta have the works of the law???

Rom 4:15 Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.

In case you don't understand what you just read, it says that we as Christians are under grace thru faith...We are not subject to the law...We are righteous because of faith...There is no sin laid to our account because of this faith...Past, present and future...

1Jo 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

We are not under the law...

Rom 4:15 Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.

Rom 5:13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.

2Co 5:21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

1Jo 3:5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.

1Jo 3:6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.

Have you ever sinned since you became Catholic??? If you have, you have never known Jesus (and He has never know you)...UNLESS, there is no sin laid to your account...

1Jo 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

All this, written in 6th grade English so anyone that can read can understand...No interpretation necessary...

Your sins as far as eternal life is concerned, don't exhist...

[Campion]

Rom 4:14 For if they which are of the law be heirs, faith is made void, and the promise made of none effect:

That's you, isn't it??? You gotta have the works of the law???

The "works of the law" in Romans 2, 3 and 4 are the ceremonial works of the Mosaic Law. See Romans 3:29.

There is no Catholic on earth who thinks you have to be circumcised and offer animal sacrifices to be saved.

In case you don't understand what you just read, it says that we as Christians are under grace thru faith...We are not subject to the law

Who gives you the authority to tell other Christians what Scripture says? Aren't you just claiming for yourself the authority you deny to the Pope?

[Iscool]

In fact, Romans 8:1-4 is an excellent point of demonstrating the Catholic notion that we have to persevere, our salvation is not assured.

Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Rom 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

Rom 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

Rom 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Rom 8:5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.

You never walk after the flesh like Paul and the other Apostles did??? I do...Every day...

Let me ask, do you ever read the Bible??? Or do you just live by the 'talking points' that your church puts out???

Rom 8:8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

Rom 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

Did you get that??? If you are in Christ (and He in you), you are spiritually minded and you are not in the flesh...

Rom 8:10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

Rom 8:11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

If the Holy Spirit is within you, you are going to heaven...No ifs, ands or buts...

Rom 8:15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.

Rom 8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

Rom 8:15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.

This whole thing is for instruction, NOT condemnation...Unless of course, the Holy Spirit does not dwell in your body...

[Iscool]

You have also failed to identify ONE CHRISTIAN that believed this heresy before Calvin. Just give me ONE!

Paul the Apostle believed it...He wrote about it...

[investigateworld]

"And the prevalence of hyper-individualism in America is largely the result of Sola-Scriptura Protestantism. It's no accident that most Americans confuse freedom with license. True freedom is the power to do good, not to do whatever I please. "

Ya, you're right. We should emulate Latin America.

[Iscool]

Please give me your interpretation of these passages:

Phil 2:12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

I'm not going to interpret anything...

What DOESN'T the verse say...It DOESN'T say to work FOR your own salvation with fear and trembling...It says work out...

Phi 2:12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only,

Paul says the Phillipians always obeyed his instruction while he was present...

but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

But now that he is absent, and Timothy is not there to continue instruction, he tells them to work out their own salvation...They were saved...So what do saved people do??? That's what the instruction was for...

Phi 2:13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

It is God within you that keeps prompting you to do good...

Phi 2:14 Do all things without murmurings and disputings:
Phi 2:15 That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world;

This verse has nothing to do with keeping or losing salvation...It has to do with their reputation as Christians in a perverse world...

And Paul is extremely worried about their growth as Christians...

Phi 2:19 But I trust in the Lord Jesus to send Timothy shortly unto you, that I also may be of good comfort, when I know your state.

Phi 2:20 For I have no man likeminded, who will naturally care for your state.

The Phillipians are obviously leaderless at the moment...And Paul doesn't trust the local people who are 'corrupting' the word of God...

Phi 2:21 For all seek their own, not the things which are Jesus Christ's.

Salvation and eternal security are NOT in the context...

[Iscool]

Who gives you the authority to tell other Christians what Scripture says? Aren't you just claiming for yourself the authority you deny to the Pope?

Apparently you are under the impression that the Bible NEEDS interpretation...Even tho it's written in 6th Grade English...At least my Bible is...

I suggest you or no one interpret anything...Just believe it, or don't...

[Running On Empty]

Any person who would claim that the Bible doesn’t need interpretation is being disingenuous. Just to read it, however incompletely, requires a need for interpretation.

[Petronski]

Apparently you are under the impression that the Bible NEEDS interpretation...Even tho it's written in 6th Grade English...

If your bible is written in 6th grade English, it has already been interpreted.

[Iscool]

Any person who would claim that the Bible doesn’t need interpretation is being disingenuous. Just to read it, however incompletely, requires a need for interpretation.

Jesus disagrees with you...But then maybe you interpret that to means something else as well...If you don't study the scriptures like the scriptures command you to do, it's nice to have someone tell you what it says...Seems that's what most Christians do...

I prefer to read the bible myself so I know what it says...

[Campion]

Apparently you are under the impression that the Bible NEEDS interpretation

No, you just interpreted it for us. Self-evidently you think it needs interpreting, because you just told us what you think it means.

[Iscool]

No, you just interpreted it for us. Self-evidently you think it needs interpreting, because you just told us what you think it means.

Not so...I simply put the verses together where they belong...And I pretty much repeated what it said...

And I did not 'cherry pick' a verse out of the context, or even a part of a verse like so many of you guys do...

[maryz]

If your bible is written in 6th grade English, it has already been interpreted.

If your bible is written in 6th grade English, it has already been interpreted. ;-)

[Aquinasfan]

Ya, you're right. We should emulate Latin America.

At least they haven't legalized the murder of unborn babies. 1.5 million/year in the US.

The world abortion law map is telling.

GREEN - Abortion never legal, or legal only when necessary to save the life of the mother or protect her physical health

YELLOW - Abortion legal in "hard cases", such as rape, incest, and/or deformed child.

RED - Abortion legal for social reasons (e.g. mother says she can't afford a child), or to protect the mother's "mental health" (definitions and requirements vary).

PURPLE - Abortion legal at any time during pregnancy for any reason.