Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

To: CatholicTim
Jesus didn’t say “on this rock I will build my churches that all teach contradictory doctrines based on private interpretation”.

No one is more guilty of private interpretation of the scriptures than the magisterium of your church...

Again you have failed to mention one verse that says “future sins” are forgiven when we accept Jesus as our Lord and Savior. Such a passage does not exist

Rom 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

We are righteous because of faith (only)...

Rom 4:8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.

Does this verse need intrepation, or can you believe what it actually says???

Rom 4:13 For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.

You get that??? Or do you need your church to interpret it for you???

Rom 4:14 For if they which are of the law be heirs, faith is made void, and the promise made of none effect:

That's you, isn't it??? You gotta have the works of the law???

Rom 4:15 Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.

In case you don't understand what you just read, it says that we as Christians are under grace thru faith...We are not subject to the law...We are righteous because of faith...There is no sin laid to our account because of this faith...Past, present and future...

1Jo 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

We are not under the law...

Rom 4:15 Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.

Rom 5:13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.

2Co 5:21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

1Jo 3:5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.

1Jo 3:6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.

Have you ever sinned since you became Catholic??? If you have, you have never known Jesus (and He has never know you)...UNLESS, there is no sin laid to your account...

1Jo 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

All this, written in 6th grade English so anyone that can read can understand...No interpretation necessary...

Your sins as far as eternal life is concerned, don't exhist...

87 posted on 08/01/2007 12:47:24 PM PDT by Iscool (OK, I'm Back...Now what were your other two wishes???)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 86 | View Replies ]


To: Iscool
Rom 4:14 For if they which are of the law be heirs, faith is made void, and the promise made of none effect:

That's you, isn't it??? You gotta have the works of the law???

The "works of the law" in Romans 2, 3 and 4 are the ceremonial works of the Mosaic Law. See Romans 3:29.

There is no Catholic on earth who thinks you have to be circumcised and offer animal sacrifices to be saved.

In case you don't understand what you just read, it says that we as Christians are under grace thru faith...We are not subject to the law

Who gives you the authority to tell other Christians what Scripture says? Aren't you just claiming for yourself the authority you deny to the Pope?

88 posted on 08/01/2007 1:05:51 PM PDT by Campion ("I am so tired of you, liberal church in America" -- Mother Angelica, 1993)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 87 | View Replies ]

To: Iscool

I appreciate your effort but none of the verses you lised mention forgiveness of future sins... which is what I asked for.

All you could provide is a subjective interpretation which is held by a tiny minority of all Christians.

Matthew 16 and Matthew 18 are clear that Jesus founded a visible church with a binding authority. The gates of hell will not prevail against His church.

We know from the historical evidence that there are only two candidates... the Eastern Orthodox and the Catholic Church.

I have attended Eastern Orthodox liturgies and they are beautiful. The problem is they lack being in communion with the Seat of Peter. This is why I am Catholic.


101 posted on 08/02/2007 9:01:35 AM PDT by CatholicTim
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 87 | View Replies ]

To: Iscool

Re: Romans 4

The church agrees with every verse in the Bible. The real question relating to Romans 4:5 is how do you define “faith”. Is it only intellectual assent? If it is then you and I are miles apart. However, if our “faith” is formed in charity then there is no disagreement between us. As a said earlier, if you harmonize ALL of Paul’s writings you know that he is talking about much more than mere intellectual assent. The “Joint Declaration on Justification” does a nice job describing the churches view on righteousness, faith and justification. In this document the church lays out a fuller definition of faith that includes “living by faith” not merely “intellectual assent”. I used to “preach” we are “saved by faith alone” too but even I would not have such a narrow definition of “faith”.

Joint Declaration on Justification

10.Paul sets forth the gospel as the power of God for salvation of the person who has fallen under the power of sin, as the message that proclaims that “the righteousness of God is revealed through faith for faith” (Rom 1:16f) and that grants “justification” (Rom 3:21-31). He proclaims Christ as “our righteousness” (1 Cor 1:30), applying to the risen Lord what Jeremiah proclaimed about God himself (Jer 23:6). In Christ’s death and resurrection all dimensions of his saving work have their roots for he is “our Lord, who was put to death for our trespasses and raised for our justification” (Rom 4:25). All human beings are in need of God’s righteousness, “since all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God” (Rom 3:23; cf. Rom 1:18-3:20; 11:32; Gal 3:22). In Galatians (3:6) and Romans (4:3-9), Paul understands Abraham’s faith (Gen 15:6) as faith in the God who justifies the sinner (Rom 4:5) and calls upon the testimony of the Old Testament to undergird his gospel that this righteousness will be reckoned to all who, like Abraham, trust in God’s promise. “For the righteous will live by faith (Hab 2:4; cf. Gal 3:11; Rom 1:17). In Paul’s letters, God’s righteousness is also God’s power for those who have faith (Rom 1:16f; 2 Cor 5:21). In Christ he makes it our righteousness (2 Cor 5:21). Justification becomes ours through Christ Jesus “whom God put forward as a sacrifice of atonement by his blood, effective through faith” (Rom 3:25; see 3:21-28). “For by grace you have been saved through faith, and this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God - not the result of works” (Eph 2:8f).

11.Justification is the forgiveness of sins (cf. Rom 3:23-25; Acts 13:39; Lk 18:14), liberation from the dominating power of sin and death (Rom 5:12-21) and from the curse of the law (Gal 3:10-14). It is acceptance into communion with God: already now, but then fully in God’s coming kingdom (Rom 5:1f). It unites with Christ and with his death and resurrection (Rom 6:5). It occurs in the reception of the Holy Spirit in baptism and incorporation into the one body (Rom 8:1f, 9f; I Cor 12:12f). All this is from God alone, for Christ’s sake, by grace, through faith in “the gospel of God’s Son” (Rom 1:1-3).

12.The justified live by faith that comes from the Word of Christ (Rom 10:17) and is active through love (Gal 5:6), the fruit of the Spirit (Gal 5:22f). But since the justified are assailed from within and without by powers and desires (Rom 8:35-39; Gal 5:16-21) and fall into sin (1 Jn 1:8,10), they must constantly hear God’s promises anew, confess their sins (1 Jn 1:9), participate in Christ’s body and blood, and be exhorted to live righteously in accord with the will of God. That is why the Apostle says to the justified: “Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling; for it is God who is at work in you, enabling you both to will and to work for his good pleasure” (Phil 2:12f). But the good news remains: “there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus” (Rom 8:1), and in whom Christ lives (Gal 2:20). Christ’s “act of righteousness leads to justification and life for all” (Rom 5:18).


102 posted on 08/02/2007 10:07:23 AM PDT by CatholicTim
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 87 | View Replies ]

To: Iscool

RE: Romans 4:14-15

From St. Augustine of Hippo [354-430 AD]
On the Grace of Christ, and on Original Sin

Hence, then, it is clear that he acknowledges that grace whereby God points out and reveals to us what we are bound to do; but not that whereby He endows and assists us to act, since the knowledge of the law, unless it be accompanied by the assistance of grace, rather avails for producing the transgression of the commandment. “Where there is no law,” says the apostle, “there is no transgression;” Romans 4:15 and again: “I had not known lust except the law had said, You shall not covet.” Romans 7:7 Therefore so far are the law and grace from being the same thing, that the law is not only unprofitable, but it is absolutely prejudicial, unless grace assists it; and the utility of the law may be shown by this, that it obliges all whom it proves guilty of transgression to betake themselves to grace for deliverance and help to overcome their evil lusts. For it rather commands than assists; it discovers disease, but does not heal it; nay, the malady that is not healed is rather aggravated by it, so that the cure of grace is more earnestly and anxiously sought for, inasmuch as “The letter kills, but the spirit gives life.” 2 Corinthians 3:6 “For if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.” Galatians 3:21 To what extent, however, the law gives assistance, the apostle informs us when he says immediately afterwards: “The Scripture has concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.” Galatians 3:22 Wherefore, says the apostle, “the law was our schoolmaster in Christ Jesus.” Galatians 3:24 Now this very thing is serviceable to proud men, to be more firmly and manifestly “concluded under sin,” so that none may pre-sumptuously endeavour to accomplish their justification by means of free will as if by their own resources; but rather “that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. Because by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in His sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin. But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets.” Romans 3:19-21 How then manifested without the law, if witnessed by the law? For this very reason the phrase is not, “manifested without the law,” but “the righteousness without the law,” because it is “the righteousness of God;” that is, the righteousness which we have not from the law, but from God,—not the righteousness, indeed, which by reason of His commanding it, causes us fear through our knowledge of it; but rather the righteousness which by reason of His bestowing it, is held fast and maintained by us through our loving it,—”so that he that glories, let him glory in the Lord.” 1 Corinthians 1:31

St. Augustine reinforces Catholic doctrine that “law is not only unprofitable, but it is absolutely prejudicial, unless grace assists it”. Grace gives us the power to persevere in our faith.


111 posted on 08/04/2007 6:33:54 PM PDT by CatholicTim
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 87 | View Replies ]

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article


FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson