Posted on 07/10/2007 8:57:47 AM PDT by f150sound
LORENZAGO DI CADORE, Italy - Pope Benedict XVI has reasserted the universal primacy of the Roman Catholic Church, approving a document released Tuesday that says Orthodox churches were defective and that other Christian denominations were not true churches.
In the latest document — formulated as five questions and answers — the Vatican seeks to set the record straight on Vatican II's ecumenical intent, saying some contemporary theological interpretation had been "erroneous or ambiguous" and had prompted confusion and doubt.
It restates key sections of a 2000 document the pope wrote when he was prefect of the congregation, "Dominus Iesus," which set off a firestorm of criticism among Protestant and other Christian denominations because it said they were not true churches but merely ecclesial communities and therefore did not have the "means of salvation."
"Christ 'established here on earth' only one church," the document said. The other communities "cannot be called 'churches' in the proper sense" because they do not have apostolic succession — the ability to trace their bishops back to Christ's original apostles.
Yes, many of them do. I used to date a guy who was Catholic and we used to have religious 'debates' over Salvation. When I asked him if he was a Christian, he said "no, I'm a Catholic" so I asked him if the Pope died for him, or did Jesus Christ. He considered the Pope to be his "holy father" and I explained that the Bible warns that we are to "call no man father but me." He tells us that He is a "jealous God." When I quit dating him, he was still lost in his sin.
Dude, you couldn't more off base with that statement. The Mass has nothing to do with my salvation.
You prove my point, thank you. Protestants do not believe in a "church" that is necessary in the way Catholics view the "church."
So why does it bother you all so much that Catholics accurately discern between their definition of "church" and that held by others?
As a Mormon, I agree with you.
It is a mortal sin in the Catholic religion to worship any man other than Jesus Christ.
You can tell all the lies you wish to tell, the truth remains.
The Pope is just a man, and a highly replaceable man, who is a Church employee.
No Catholic in the history of the Church has ever regarded any Pope as a deity.
Those guys actually scared.
Interesting post, thank you.
You really are looking for a war aren't you? LOL
PS. Nowhere does the document claim that Orthodox Churches are defective.
That’s why Protestants do not have “churches.” Now individual Protestans may be saved, but that is because of the grace brought into the world through the Mass.
If you are referring to my post to the mods, I merely questioned the placement of the thread in the News forum, before I had read any of the comments.
I wouldn't be surprised lol!
It means exactly what it says: that the Catholic Church and the Catholic Church alone is the one, true Church of Jesus Christ.
That's exactly the same thing every Catholic says every Sunday when he recites the Nicene Creed.
Some people on this thread are trying to twist it to say that the Pope is saying non-Catholics are not Christians.
That is not the teaching.
Anyone who is validly baptized - be they Baptist or Lutheran or Methodist or Greek Orthodox - is a Christian.
However, the organizations they belong to are not the Church. Their baptism makes them Christians, not their membership in an SBC congregation, or the Missouri Synod, or what have you.
It’s NEWS!!!!
Do you really think you belong to a "church" as defined by the Catholic Church? You have priests with direct succession from the Apostles and your Church dispenses saving grace through the sacraments?
You are welcome. The press is not well known for accurate reporting on the Catholic Church or Protestant denominations. . They are so busy fawning over the mythical moderate muslims they see behind every jihad they have little time to learn about Christianity.
There are very real differences between Catholics and Protestant theology. We could civil debates on them for years to come. But these debates should not keep us from our goal as fellow Christians to witness the Truth of God’s love and salvation to the world.
Sure it does.
A Catholic cannot be assured of salvation, no matter how "good" a Catholic he is.
That's an entirely different thing, isn't it? About as differeant as saying a Protestant community does not meet the Catholic definition of "church" and saying all Protestants are going to hell.
Two different things.
Being personally assured of salvation is presumption.
What I am laboring to say is that by adhering to the doctrine of the Catholic Church, one is assured of avoiding any error in one's belief or moral action.
The Church's teaching is a sure guide to following God's will, while the teaching of other communions isn't necessarily such a guide.
Christ called Simon “rock” and said that on this rock He will build His church. The word used for the second “rock” means “boulder” whereas the word used for the first “rock” actually means “little stone”.
In another words, Christ called Simon “little stone” and said that on this boulder He will build His church. Little stones are pieces of boulders. This hardly means that Simon Peter was to be the foundation of the Church, but rather Christ, Who is the Rock of Ages, etc. is the foundation of the Church. Because Simon confessed Christ, he became part of the foundation along with anyone else who confesses Christ.
Rom 10:13 (KJV): For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
Eph 1:6 (KJV): To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.
Eph 1:7 (KJV): In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;
John 3:15 (KJV): That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
John 10:28-30 (KJV): And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father’s hand. I and my Father are one.
Titus 3:7 (KJV): That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.
1 John 5:11-13 (KJV): And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life. These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.
It seems to me when I am fortunate enough to meet my Lord Jesus, having accepted him as my Saviour, it is his mercy, love and forgiveness will be that which provides me his gift of eternal life. It is sad that man attempts to define what a church is, what group or church is deserving of same when it is not up to man to judge at all. It is amazing how man, in his arrogance, makes soemthing so simply asked of us such a complicated matter. Let the Church, groups of Christians if that better fits in the RCC definition teach us the word...Let Jesus, God do the judging.
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