Posted on 07/05/2007 3:00:33 AM PDT by Gamecock
The following draws from the book Is the Mormon My Brother by apologist James White. Earlier this year, Paul Kaiser reprinted a Worldview article titled 10 Mormonism Facts which generated a myriad of responses from visitors who stated that Mormons were being misrepresented and are simply our brothers & sisters in the Body of Christ. Let’s look at what Dr. White presents using LDS resources:
The First Vision
Without question the key revelation in Mormon Scripture regarding the nature of God is to be found in what is known as the First Vision of Joseph Smith. The vision itself is fundamental to all of LDS theology. Mormon Apostle Bruce R. McConkie described the vision:
That glorious theophany which took place in the spring of 1820 and which marked the opening of the dispensation of the fullness of times is called the First Vision. It is rated as first both from the standpoint of time and of pre-eminent importance. In it Joseph Smith saw and conversed with the Father and the Son, both of which exalted personages were personally present before him as he lay enwrapped in the Spirit and overshadowed by the Holy Ghost.
This transcendent vision was the beginning of latter day revelation; it marked the opening of the heavens after the long night of apostate darkness; with it was ushered in the great era of restoration, the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began. (Acts 3:21.) Through it the creeds of Christendom were shattered to smithereens, and because of it the truth about those Beings whom it is life eternal to know began again to be taught among men. (John 17:3.) With this vision came the call of that Prophet who, save Jesus only, was destined to do more for the salvation of men in this world, than any other man that ever lived in it. (D. & C. 135:3.) This vision was the most important event that had taken place in all world history from the day of Christ’s ministry to the glorious hour when it occurred.(1)
And Mormon Prophet Ezra Taft Benson said,
Joseph Smith, a prophet of God, restored the knowledge of God. Joseph’s first vision clearly revealed that the Father and Son are separate personages, having bodies as tangible as mans. Later it was also revealed that the Holy Ghost is a personage of Spirit, separate and distinct from the personalities of the Father and the Son. (See D&C 130:22.) This all-important truth shocked the world even though sustained by the Bible. (2)
How is it that the creeds of Christendom were shattered to smithereens and the knowledge of God was restored by this one vision? While the story is as familiar to Mormons as John 3:16 is to Christians, we present Joseph Smith’s own recounting of the story in full, taken from the LDS Scriptures (and hence carrying canonical authority). However, we note that the account that appears in the LDS Scriptures was written in 1838, eighteen years after the events described:
14 So, in accordance with this, my determination to ask of God, I retired to the woods to make the attempt. It was on the morning of a beautiful, clear day, early in the spring of eighteen hundred and twenty. It was the first time in my life that I had made such an attempt, for amidst all my anxieties I had never as yet made the attempt to pray vocally.
15 After I had retired to the place where I had previously designed to go, having looked around me, and finding myself alone, I kneeled down and began to offer up the desires of my heart to God. I had scarcely done so, when immediately I was seized upon bysome power which entirely overcame me, and had such an astonishing influence over me as to bind my tongue so that I could not speak. Thick darkness gathered around me, and it seemed to me for a time as if I were doomed to sudden destruction.
16 But, exerting all my powers to call upon God to deliver me out of the power of this enemy which had seized upon me, and at the very moment when I was ready to sink into despair and abandon myself to destruction—not to an imaginary ruin, but to the power of some actual being from the unseen world, who had such marvelous power as I had never before felt in any being just at this moment of great alarm, I saw a pillar of light exactly over my head, above the brightness of the sun, which descended gradually until it fell upon me.
17 It no sooner appeared than I found myself delivered from the enemy which held me bound. When the light rested upon me I saw two Personages, whose brightness and glory defy all description, standing above me in the air. One of them spake unto me, calling me by name and said, pointing to the other This is My Beloved Son. Hear Him!
18 My object in going to inquire of the Lord was to know which of all the sects was right, that I might know which to join. No sooner, therefore, did I get possession of myself, so as to be able to speak, than I asked the Personages who stood above me in the light, which of all the sects was right (for at this time it had never entered into my heart that all were wrong)–and which I should join.
19 I was answered that I must join none of them, for they were all wrong;(3) and the Personage who addressed me said that all their creeds were an abomination in his sight; that those professors were all corrupt; that: they draw near to me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me, they teach for doctrines the commandments of men, having a form of godliness, but they deny the power thereof.
20 He again forbade me to join with any of them; and many other things did he say unto me, which I cannot write at this time. When I came to myself again, I found myself lying on my back, looking up into heaven. When the light had departed, I had no strength; but soon recovering in some degree, I went home. And as I leaned up to the fireplace, mother inquired what the matter was. I replied, Never mind, all is well I am well enough off. I then said to my mother, I have learned for myself that Presbyterianism is not true. It seems as though the adversary was aware, at a very early period of my life, that I was destined to prove a disturber and an annoyer of his kingdom; else why should the powers of darkness combine against me? Why the opposition and persecution that arose against me, almost in my infancy? (Joseph Smith History 1:14-20).
What does this vision, recorded in LDS Scripture, teach concerning God? First and foremost, it presents to us the concept of a plurality of gods. This arises from the fact that God the Father is a separate and distinct physical entity from Jesus Christ, His Son. God the Father is possessed of a physical body, as is the Son. This is why McConkie can claim the creeds of Christendom were smashed to smithereens, for the vision has always been interpreted by the LDS leadership to teach that God the Father is a separate and distinct person and being from the Son. The unity of Being that is central to Christian theology is completely denied by Joseph Smith in the First Vision. Hence, you have one God, the Father, directing Smith to another God, the Son.
While it is not our intention to critique these teachings at this point, it should be noted that there are a number of problems with the First Vision, and with the entire development of the LDS concept of God as well. As we noted, this version of the First Vision was not written until 1838. Previous versions, however, differed in substantial details from this final and official account. Most significantly, the presence of both the Father and the Son as separate and distinct gods is not a part of the earlier accounts.(4)
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(1) Bruce R. McConkie, Mormon Doctrine,2nd ed., rev. (Salt Lake City: Bookcraft, 1966), pp. 284-285, LDSCL.
(2) Ezra Taft Benson, Teachings of Ezra Taft Benson (Salt Lake City: Bookcraft, 1988), p. 4, LDSCL. On page 101 of the same book, we read this strong statement:
The first vision of the Prophet Joseph Smith is bedrock theology to the Church. The adversary knows this and has attacked Joseph Smith’s credibility from the day he announced the visitation of the Father and the Son. You should always bear testimony to thetruth of the First Vision. Joseph Smith did see the Father and the Son. They conversed with him as he said they did. Any leader who, without reservation, cannot declare his testimony that God and Jesus Christ appeared to Joseph Smith can never be a true leader, a true shepherd. If we do not accept this truth if we have not received a witness about this great revelationwe cannot inspire faith in those whom we lead.
(3) One of Mormonism’s leading scholars, James Talmage (and a General Authority), said the following in the General Conference of April, 1920:
This Church, therefore, from its beginning, has been unique, for the organization of the Church was forecasted in this declaration that at the time of Joseph Smiths first vision there was no Church of Jesus Christ upon the earth; and I do not see why people should take issue with us for making that statement (CR1920Apr:103).
(4) I noted a number of the historical problems with Mormonism in Letters to a Mormon Elder, pp. 88-106. For a fuller treatment of this issue, see H. Michael Marquardt and Wesley P. Walters, Inventing Mormonism (Salt Lake: Smith Research Associates, 1994), pp.1-41, and Jerald and Sandra Tanner, Mormonism: Shadow or Reality? (Salt Lake City: Utah Lighthouse Ministry, 1982), pp. 143-162.
Ed...er...whatever his other name is, has run away to the "Wonderful World of Watson" after dumping his load of cr...crackers on us today. I think it just got too warm in here for him. ;)
BTW have you all noticed that none of the "usual suspects" were involved in the scuffle?
Surely you know to study your enemy...to know his ways?
Surely you've been taught that Satan is a liar and the mind is his "playing field"?
Wow...just kept getting more bizarre, IMO.
The sentence is in post # 590
From EW, "I’m glad I participated here today - I won’t again for a very long while since it’s a waste of time and effort. You anti-Mormons with your smug arrogance and constant lies and misrepresentations about my church are a drain on the soul and you deserve what you get when the time comes.
Well, he's PROMISED to not come back "for a very long time". I think whatever mormon called that particular "genie" out of the lamp got a little more than they bargained for, LOL. Do you think that last little bit " you deserve what you get when the time comes. was EW putting a curse on us? Oooooooooo!
BTW, do you remember he said that he had had 80 debates and never lost one? "I won’t again for a very long while since it’s a waste of time and effort." sounds just a leetle bit defeatist to me!
Amen!
If you refuse to accept Christ, there is no other Salvation because only by the wooing of the Holy Spirit can you have the opportunity to accept or refuse Christ, thus if you refuse that which the Holy Spirit brings to your soul you have committed the unpardonable sin of rejecting God's Salvation.
We reformed take that a step further and believe only those who are "wooed" or called by Christ are enabled to receive the Holy Spirit, according to the will of God as Scripture tells us...
"Blessed is the man whom thou choosest, and causest to approach unto thee" -- Psalm 65:4
I just hope good ole’ Ed didn’t stomp off and burn children to Molech, who he apparently considers a valid god.
All depends on the meaning of “lost”........
Amen that! BTW, I had never read the Westminster Confession before you posted it. Thanx again
Jesus came to make ALL RELIGION obsolete, AND DID..
I doubt that.
The LDS underestimate how profoundly antithetical their belief system is to Christianity.
It is a damnable heresy to say that God was once a man. It is a damnable heresy to say that men can become God. Christians are literally repulsed by the arrogance and blasphemy of those two statements.
I've learned three things in 20 years as an apologist:
1. Debating is futile.
Maybe the reason you're not getting anywhere in these debates is because what Mormons believe is so far outside the bounds of Christianity that it is dismissed as total folly.
Go back to the Bible and read it without the spectacles of concocted fables.
I didn’t understand until today that the Mormon’s go wrong in the first three words of the Bible. “In the beginning” . . . it’s not the beginning to the Mormon! Stuff came before “the beginning” . . . whole universes, gods, people,
Here's a handy little history (isn't the internet amazing?)...
Being cut off from Christ is hell Edward not heaven. A life without anything good from the hand of God ever. Mormon's call hell heaven. That is a big problem.
"As for those who refuse to accept Christ" what this REALLY means is for those who refuse to accept the mormon version of salvation by accepting the posthumous baptism, endowments, sealing and confirmation into the LDS church AFTER DEATH, they will also go to a lower heaven where they will not associate with Christ.
To mormons the ONLY ones allowed into the Celestial (higher)kingdom are....are you ready for this?....mormons(either inducted into mormonism alive or dead), who have proved their "worthiness" by obeying all the rules laid out by their religion. After all, they alone have the "restored" church.
“We are often labeled polytheists by our opponents. The term needs to be clarified. What does polytheism mean? “
Sort of like, “Depends on what the definition of is, is!”
Always a twist, always a clever redifinition of terms by Mormons - it’s a revelation unless it wasn’t a revelation, or was superseded by another revelation.
That’s why we no longer believe you are acting in good conscience anymore and why “Mormon apologist” has come to mean someone who will twist history to square the circle.
Some of the words the Apologist use sound like the same words we use.
They think that makes them a Christian religion.
Oh, yes, I know from prior Mormon apologists that the celestial kingdom is reserved not only for only Mormons but tithing, temple recommend etc. Mormons. What I didn’t know was that the “heaven” below that, the telestial kingdom, is cut off from contact with Christ . . . which is hell. It’s really disturbing especially when an apologist spins that as somehow being kind and good to cut someone off from God forever.
why should you pay homage to thier "lies"?
Matthew 5:10 Blessed are those who are persecuted because of righteousness, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
Matthew 5:11 "Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of me.
Matthew 5:12 Rejoice and be glad, because great is your reward in heaven, for in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you.
Matthew 5:44 But I tell you: Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you,
I’m back for a few minutes - I was shocked to notice I spent 4 1/2 hours responding to you guys this afternoon - which is one reason why I’ve discontinued apologetics - there’s not enough days responding to recycled arguments.
Joseph Smith a liar? Sure he lied, but his fallibility does not invalidate his prophetic mantle anymore than Peter’s repeated lies invalidated his. The prophet Samuel even murdered a bound prisoner - he chopped him to pieces and yet, presumably, you still believe he was a genuine prophet.
I have my own mind - I can determine for myself the credibility of Joseph Smith’s cosmology and I also can evaluate the Book of Mormon’s literary merit, even without receiving an answered prayer. Heck, if Harold Bloom, a secular Jew and America’s greatest literary critic can; as an author and analyst, I can do likewise. My conclusion is in accord with his - simply unrivaled.
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