Posted on 07/05/2007 3:00:33 AM PDT by Gamecock
The following draws from the book Is the Mormon My Brother by apologist James White. Earlier this year, Paul Kaiser reprinted a Worldview article titled 10 Mormonism Facts which generated a myriad of responses from visitors who stated that Mormons were being misrepresented and are simply our brothers & sisters in the Body of Christ. Let’s look at what Dr. White presents using LDS resources:
The First Vision
Without question the key revelation in Mormon Scripture regarding the nature of God is to be found in what is known as the First Vision of Joseph Smith. The vision itself is fundamental to all of LDS theology. Mormon Apostle Bruce R. McConkie described the vision:
That glorious theophany which took place in the spring of 1820 and which marked the opening of the dispensation of the fullness of times is called the First Vision. It is rated as first both from the standpoint of time and of pre-eminent importance. In it Joseph Smith saw and conversed with the Father and the Son, both of which exalted personages were personally present before him as he lay enwrapped in the Spirit and overshadowed by the Holy Ghost.
This transcendent vision was the beginning of latter day revelation; it marked the opening of the heavens after the long night of apostate darkness; with it was ushered in the great era of restoration, the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began. (Acts 3:21.) Through it the creeds of Christendom were shattered to smithereens, and because of it the truth about those Beings whom it is life eternal to know began again to be taught among men. (John 17:3.) With this vision came the call of that Prophet who, save Jesus only, was destined to do more for the salvation of men in this world, than any other man that ever lived in it. (D. & C. 135:3.) This vision was the most important event that had taken place in all world history from the day of Christ’s ministry to the glorious hour when it occurred.(1)
And Mormon Prophet Ezra Taft Benson said,
Joseph Smith, a prophet of God, restored the knowledge of God. Joseph’s first vision clearly revealed that the Father and Son are separate personages, having bodies as tangible as mans. Later it was also revealed that the Holy Ghost is a personage of Spirit, separate and distinct from the personalities of the Father and the Son. (See D&C 130:22.) This all-important truth shocked the world even though sustained by the Bible. (2)
How is it that the creeds of Christendom were shattered to smithereens and the knowledge of God was restored by this one vision? While the story is as familiar to Mormons as John 3:16 is to Christians, we present Joseph Smith’s own recounting of the story in full, taken from the LDS Scriptures (and hence carrying canonical authority). However, we note that the account that appears in the LDS Scriptures was written in 1838, eighteen years after the events described:
14 So, in accordance with this, my determination to ask of God, I retired to the woods to make the attempt. It was on the morning of a beautiful, clear day, early in the spring of eighteen hundred and twenty. It was the first time in my life that I had made such an attempt, for amidst all my anxieties I had never as yet made the attempt to pray vocally.
15 After I had retired to the place where I had previously designed to go, having looked around me, and finding myself alone, I kneeled down and began to offer up the desires of my heart to God. I had scarcely done so, when immediately I was seized upon bysome power which entirely overcame me, and had such an astonishing influence over me as to bind my tongue so that I could not speak. Thick darkness gathered around me, and it seemed to me for a time as if I were doomed to sudden destruction.
16 But, exerting all my powers to call upon God to deliver me out of the power of this enemy which had seized upon me, and at the very moment when I was ready to sink into despair and abandon myself to destruction—not to an imaginary ruin, but to the power of some actual being from the unseen world, who had such marvelous power as I had never before felt in any being just at this moment of great alarm, I saw a pillar of light exactly over my head, above the brightness of the sun, which descended gradually until it fell upon me.
17 It no sooner appeared than I found myself delivered from the enemy which held me bound. When the light rested upon me I saw two Personages, whose brightness and glory defy all description, standing above me in the air. One of them spake unto me, calling me by name and said, pointing to the other This is My Beloved Son. Hear Him!
18 My object in going to inquire of the Lord was to know which of all the sects was right, that I might know which to join. No sooner, therefore, did I get possession of myself, so as to be able to speak, than I asked the Personages who stood above me in the light, which of all the sects was right (for at this time it had never entered into my heart that all were wrong)–and which I should join.
19 I was answered that I must join none of them, for they were all wrong;(3) and the Personage who addressed me said that all their creeds were an abomination in his sight; that those professors were all corrupt; that: they draw near to me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me, they teach for doctrines the commandments of men, having a form of godliness, but they deny the power thereof.
20 He again forbade me to join with any of them; and many other things did he say unto me, which I cannot write at this time. When I came to myself again, I found myself lying on my back, looking up into heaven. When the light had departed, I had no strength; but soon recovering in some degree, I went home. And as I leaned up to the fireplace, mother inquired what the matter was. I replied, Never mind, all is well I am well enough off. I then said to my mother, I have learned for myself that Presbyterianism is not true. It seems as though the adversary was aware, at a very early period of my life, that I was destined to prove a disturber and an annoyer of his kingdom; else why should the powers of darkness combine against me? Why the opposition and persecution that arose against me, almost in my infancy? (Joseph Smith History 1:14-20).
What does this vision, recorded in LDS Scripture, teach concerning God? First and foremost, it presents to us the concept of a plurality of gods. This arises from the fact that God the Father is a separate and distinct physical entity from Jesus Christ, His Son. God the Father is possessed of a physical body, as is the Son. This is why McConkie can claim the creeds of Christendom were smashed to smithereens, for the vision has always been interpreted by the LDS leadership to teach that God the Father is a separate and distinct person and being from the Son. The unity of Being that is central to Christian theology is completely denied by Joseph Smith in the First Vision. Hence, you have one God, the Father, directing Smith to another God, the Son.
While it is not our intention to critique these teachings at this point, it should be noted that there are a number of problems with the First Vision, and with the entire development of the LDS concept of God as well. As we noted, this version of the First Vision was not written until 1838. Previous versions, however, differed in substantial details from this final and official account. Most significantly, the presence of both the Father and the Son as separate and distinct gods is not a part of the earlier accounts.(4)
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(1) Bruce R. McConkie, Mormon Doctrine,2nd ed., rev. (Salt Lake City: Bookcraft, 1966), pp. 284-285, LDSCL.
(2) Ezra Taft Benson, Teachings of Ezra Taft Benson (Salt Lake City: Bookcraft, 1988), p. 4, LDSCL. On page 101 of the same book, we read this strong statement:
The first vision of the Prophet Joseph Smith is bedrock theology to the Church. The adversary knows this and has attacked Joseph Smith’s credibility from the day he announced the visitation of the Father and the Son. You should always bear testimony to thetruth of the First Vision. Joseph Smith did see the Father and the Son. They conversed with him as he said they did. Any leader who, without reservation, cannot declare his testimony that God and Jesus Christ appeared to Joseph Smith can never be a true leader, a true shepherd. If we do not accept this truth if we have not received a witness about this great revelationwe cannot inspire faith in those whom we lead.
(3) One of Mormonism’s leading scholars, James Talmage (and a General Authority), said the following in the General Conference of April, 1920:
This Church, therefore, from its beginning, has been unique, for the organization of the Church was forecasted in this declaration that at the time of Joseph Smiths first vision there was no Church of Jesus Christ upon the earth; and I do not see why people should take issue with us for making that statement (CR1920Apr:103).
(4) I noted a number of the historical problems with Mormonism in Letters to a Mormon Elder, pp. 88-106. For a fuller treatment of this issue, see H. Michael Marquardt and Wesley P. Walters, Inventing Mormonism (Salt Lake: Smith Research Associates, 1994), pp.1-41, and Jerald and Sandra Tanner, Mormonism: Shadow or Reality? (Salt Lake City: Utah Lighthouse Ministry, 1982), pp. 143-162.
I haven’t asked anyone to break any vow. I’ve pointed out problems in discussing comparative religion when some teachings are secret. I’ve asked questions to clarify what it is we’re discussing that comprises what must be kept secret. And I’ve tried to do so with courtesy and respect.
On the other hand, I might want to select the next Car of the Year. I don’t belong to JD Power, so it isn’t going to happen for me. You’re not Catholic, so participating in the selection of the Pope isn’t going to happen for you either.
Didn’t Smith have a number of revelations? I read that there were 4 (or more) by the angel Moroni, in which he first revealed the existence of the plates, then he told Smith to wait before getting them, then he told him when to get them, then finally took them back. Question: did the Pearl of Great Price come from the plate?
Then, several other messengers came bearing the keys - priestly powers and consecrations, followed by John the Baptist, then Peter, James and John, and by 1836, Elijah, Moses and Jesus Christ had appeared. That’s quite a procession.
I didn’t mean that the Urim and Thummim were removed - I meant the plates. I tried to google up a picture of the Urim and Thummin and Google was not my friend. Do you have a link to pictures?
Oops, meant my last post to be in reply to yours.
To you it seems this is a LDS privilege but to the LDS it is a sacred covenant from the Lord!
I think the two of you are overlooking your need to know is in conflict with a commandment that the Lord gave his Children and you are asking us to break our vows for your self satisfying pleasure.
If so, then it is WRITTEN DOWN somewhere.
Show us, and the world, just WHERE it is!
Otherwise, you are merely relying on 'a tradition' of the LDS organization that HAS NO BASIS IN SCRIPTURE!!!
We don't.
We just wonder WHY none of you in thread are able to point to your Scriptures to show WHERE you get AUTHORITY to do them.
And we decline with 'courtesy and respect'.
What's YOUR problem??
--MormonDude
You as a nature man would do expediently ignored that which is written down somewhere!
****
Matt 7
6 ¶ Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.
Prov. 23:
9 Speak not in the ears of a fool: for he will despise the wisdom of thy words.
Matt. 15: 26 (
26 But he answered and said, It is not meet to take the children’s bread, and to cast it to dogs.
D&C 6: 12
12 Make not thy gift known unto any save it be those who are of thy faith. Trifle not with sacred things.
D&C 10: 37 (36-37)
37 But as you cannot always judge the righteous, or as you cannot always tell the wicked from the righteous, therefore I say unto you, hold your peace until I shall see fit to make all things known unto the world concerning the matter.
D&C 41:
6 For it is not meet that the things which belong to the children of the kingdom should be given to them that are not worthy, or to dogs, or the pearls to be cast before swine.
13 If you have previously received your temple endowment:
Do you keep the covenants that you made in the temple?
Do you wear the garment both night and day as instructed in the endowment and in accordance with the covenant you made in the temple?
Show us, and the world, just WHERE it is!
Otherwise, you are merely relying on 'a tradition' of the LDS organization that HAS NO BASIS IN SCRIPTURE!!!
When you do someday meet the Lord and stand before his judgment bar, it will be interesting to watch you explain why you always delighted to play devil advocate on earth!
As LDS are council not do anything like it for the prince of this world hath nothing in me!
For it is not of the Lord as the Lord said in
John 14
30 Hereafter I will not talk much with you: for the prince of this world cometh, and hath nothing in me.
D&C 59
6 Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself. Thou shalt not steal; neither commit adultery, nor kill, nor do anything like unto it.
which would include playing devil advocate.
>>In an attempt to continue the analogy, I have to suggest, that no one is going to know if any of the doctors or medicines really worked...until they are dead. So what does it really matter which doctor they visit or which medicine they take?<<
Assuming that two courses of medical treatment were equally ineffective in prolonging my life, I would nonetheless prefer to take that treatment with the fewest negative side-effects.
By the same token: Given a choice between two (equally false) religions, I would choose the one which allowed me to live my life with as little interference as possible. So even though I view both Islamic Fundamentalism and Pastafarianism as utter bilgewater, I would rather not join a faith that dictated that I strive to don a suicide belt and walk into a crowded marketplace.
How do you know if a religion is false or not?
Interference from what?
Why would you need a religion at all?
>>How do you know if a religion is false or not?<<
Because ALL religions are false (in my opinion).
>>Interference from what?<<
Interference from religious dicta (e.g. dietary prohibitions, ritual proscriptions, etc.), preventing me from living a pleasant life.
>>Why would you need a religion at all?<<
I WOULDN’T. But I was commenting on someone’s assertion that it wouldn’t matter WHICH religion one chooses, since one wouldn’t know anyway which one was “correct” until after death. My counter-assertion is that it DOES matter.
I agree somewhat, in that I just do not know if any of the religions are false or not, although I do believe that they are all man-made.
I understand now why you believe that it does matter. Thanks
Or as CORRECTED by JS:
Matt 7 6 ¶ Give not that which is TRADITION unto the GENTILES, neither cast ye your NON-AUTHORITY before INVESTIGATORS, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you because they KNOW that these things ye do are NOT COMMANDED anywhere in your 'scriptures'.
You mean the ones that YOU do that have NO written authority??
Sorry Resty; but I'll take my chances!
KJV Acts 17:11
These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.
YOUR 'scriptures' have been searched, and NO authority to do the temple rites have been found.
whatever that is your bed!
Thanks, but still haven’t started, I’ve been swamped. I have yet to see the #5 movie... Friday I hope.
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