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Although this is not from a Catholic source (that is, a source in communion with Rome), I think it brings up some tremendous points worth consideration.
1 posted on 06/11/2007 3:29:06 AM PDT by markomalley
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To: markomalley
It would be nice is those points were actually thoughtfully considered by those who disagree with them, but I fear they will miss the point entirely and this thread will consist of little more than cut-and-pastes from a host of sola scriptura websites.
2 posted on 06/11/2007 4:55:21 AM PDT by FormerLib (Sacrificing our land and our blood cannot buy protection from jihad.-Bishop Artemije of Kosovo)
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To: markomalley
The Bible says Jesus Christ is a created being. He is superior to the angels, but not eternal and not of the same nature as the Father.

" In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
The same was in the beginning with God.
All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. " John 1: 1-3

"And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth."

The Bible does NOT say that Jesus is not eternal - to the contrary, the above verses confirm that Jesus was the Word from the beginning, that He is, in fact, God the Son.

3 posted on 06/11/2007 5:09:08 AM PDT by Tuscaloosa Goldfinch (If MY people who are called by MY name -- the ball's in our court, folks.)
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To: markomalley

Whether or not there is agreement upon the meaning of Scripture serves as a poor foundation on which to build an argument for tradition. If all accepted tradition as valid, there would simply be an added dynamic upon which to disagree. Rather than debate concise, unchanging text, we would be debating the continuing compilation of what one person or another thought about a topic.

The unchanging, moral authority that is the Bible is a far better ruler by which to measure Truth. It holds man accountable to the same standard across all time and through any society’s morality. The Bible itself warns against falling into reliance on traditions of men (Colossians 2:8). It seems the Holy Spirit understood the relativistic nature of morality if left to man. One need only look to the various religious institutions of men and what has become of their reliance on traditions.

I appreciate the effort by the author, and I can’t say I will spend as much energy refuting his assertions. It is a matter already settled by many, and certainly by Scripture.


4 posted on 06/11/2007 7:24:11 AM PDT by pjr12345 (But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead? James 2:20)
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To: markomalley
For early Christians, there was no false dichotomy such as we see today between the Bible and Holy Tradition. In the intensity of unimaginably crucial battles for the Faith, when forces within and without were threatening to tear apart and silence forever the message proclaimed by Christ and passed down through His disciples, the Church looked gratefully to both Scripture and Holy Tradition to find balance and to maintain equilibrium. It was never an "either/or" op­tion. Both Scripture and Holy Tradition were received as having been given to the Church by God Himself, the source of all wisdom, through the direct operation of the Holy Spirit.

The same thing was probably said by the clergy of the Nicolaitans who had spent decades establishing their Holy Traditions [practices and teachings] in many of those early churches, except for those that didn't compromise Scripture with Tradition and actually understood Revelation 2:6.

5 posted on 06/11/2007 7:39:55 AM PDT by Uncle Chip (TRUTH : Ignore it. Deride it. Allegorize it. Interpret it. But you can't ESCAPE it.)
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To: markomalley
"The Bible says homosexuality is morally ac­ceptable; it is a lifestyle as viable as any "traditional" concept of marriage or family.

Where does it say that?

The Bible says once someone accepts Christ, he can never lose his salvation. All true Christians have eternal security.

Where does it say that?

The Bible says long ago God predestined some men and women to everlasting life, and some to ever­lasting judgment. We are not free to accept or reject His salvation. The Bible says God Himself does not know who will choose Him. Salvation is a matter of free will. The decision is entirely up to us.

Where does it say God predestined some to everlasting judgment? Assuming the writer means bad judgment, (some of us will be judged with rewards) the only ones I know of would be the fallen angels and Satan himself.

The Bible says Jesus Christ is the eternal Son of God the Father, sharing fully in His divinity, and indivisibly united with the Holy Trinity. The Bible says Jesus Christ is a created being. He is superior to the angels, but not eternal and not of the same nature as the Father. The Bible says we should no longer use the terms "Father" and "Son" in relation to God. They are merely symbolic and were meant to be replaced with less sexist terminology

The writer needs to tell us where he is finding these things in the Word. They sound convoluted to me as if he is picking a phrase here and there with the result being total confusion.

6 posted on 06/11/2007 8:06:41 AM PDT by Ping-Pong
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To: markomalley

One good way to look at this is to answer this question:

Who wrote the FIRST written account about the institution of the Eucharist?

I’ll give everyone the answer and the reason for my answer in a few posts. Keep guessing.


8 posted on 06/11/2007 8:14:55 AM PDT by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: markomalley

One good way to look at this is to answer this question:

Who wrote the FIRST written account about the institution of the Eucharist?

Hint: It has to do with HOLY TRADITION!


9 posted on 06/11/2007 8:15:39 AM PDT by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: markomalley
Some additional information here: Early Church Fathers on (Oral) Tradition - Catholic/Orthodox Caucus
11 posted on 06/11/2007 8:17:05 AM PDT by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: markomalley; trisham; All
The first written account of the institution of the Holy Eucharist was one of the readings for Corpus Christi Sunday

 
 
Reading II
1 Cor 11:23-26

Brothers and sisters:
I received from the Lord what I also handed on to you,
that the Lord Jesus, on the night he was handed over,
took bread, and, after he had given thanks,
broke it and said, "This is my body that is for you.
Do this in remembrance of me."
In the same way also the cup, after supper, saying,
"This cup is the new covenant in my blood.
Do this, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of me."
For as often as you eat this bread and drink the cup,
you proclaim the death of the Lord until he comes.

Now, how in the heck did Paul know about the institution of the Holy Eucharist? He was not at the Last Supper, was he?

Answer: Holy Tradition -- it was orally told to those going out to the Gentiles by the Apostles.

As the apostles who were present at the Last Supper (and the other evangelists) approached the years 80 and 90 AD, they realized that they needed to write down their Gospels. But Paul had been out preaching to the Gentiles for several years already...................check the footnotes in your Bible for the First Letter of St. Paul to the Corinthians!!!!

Are you surprised by this answer?

13 posted on 06/11/2007 8:46:00 AM PDT by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: markomalley
My favorite exegesis, also Orthodox, on this topic is

On Holy Scripture and Holy Tradition

31 posted on 06/11/2007 11:58:33 AM PDT by annalex
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To: markomalley

Bump for later


33 posted on 06/11/2007 12:12:51 PM PDT by swmobuffalo (The only good terrorist is a dead terrorist.)
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To: markomalley

ping


79 posted on 06/11/2007 6:10:47 PM PDT by Greg F (<><)
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To: markomalley

Read later.


101 posted on 06/13/2007 1:54:26 PM PDT by Jaded ("I have a mustard- seed; and I am not afraid to use it."- Joseph Ratzinger)
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