Posted on 06/01/2007 2:28:41 PM PDT by Gamecock
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Following is my resignation letter from the Roman Catholic Church and from my position as Director of the Rite of Christian Initiation for Adults (RCIA), a program designed to teach Catholicism to adults who would like to become Catholics. |
This letter serves to inform you that I am separating myself from the Roman Catholic Church. This decision has come about after many months of intensive research into the Scriptures, the writings of the Patristic fathers of the church, and church history. During this period of research I have considered the writings and/or oral arguments of such Catholic authors as Keating, Sungenis, Ott, Hahn, Matatics, as well as the Catechism of the Catholic Church (CCC). My separation from the church of Rome is driven by differences in doctrine. This is not a matter of rancor but rather a matter of being faithful to my Lord and Savior with a clear conscience. It is worth noting that I might never have reached this conclusion, except that I was appointed to the position of the Director of the RCIA. Being placed in that position compelled me to look at the Scriptures and church in depth as I studied Catholic doctrine. I readily acknowledge that there are many sincere and devout people in the Catholic church that love the Lord Jesus, but I believe that many of them are misled as to how a person is saved. What happened that I should change my mind? When I joined the Church in 1993 I made a serious commitment to the Lord Jesus Christ and to the Catholic church. My commitment to the Lord Jesus remains and has grown, but my decision to join the RCC was based upon only a surface reading of Scriptures and the Catechism of the Catholic church. The more I have looked at Scripture (and not just at localized passages) I discovered that not all the doctrines taught by the RCC are Scriptural. Not being content with this, because I realized that my private interpretation might possibly be in error, I began to read the writings of the early fathers of the church. I found that many of the doctrines held and taught by the RCC today are not in agreement with the early church, nor are they found in Scripture. Many of them actually contradict Scripture. What are some of the doctrinal problems that force me to separate myself? Marian Doctrine
I have reviewed the church’s teaching on Mary, as Co-Mediatrix, her perpetual virginity, Immaculate conception, and being enthroned as Queen of Heaven. These doctrines are not in agreement with scripture or the teachings of the early fathers of the church. Saint Paul writes in his letter to Timothy (1 Tim 2:5) "there is one God, and one mediator also between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.." It was interesting to discover that none of the early church fathers in the first three hundred years of the church ever wrote about Mary as a Co-Mediator. If there is only one mediator as God’s Word says, how can there be a co-mediator? This is a blatant contradiction. As to Mary’s perpetual virginity Scripture is quite plain. In Matthew 13:55-56 are found references to the brothers and sisters of Jesus. Now I am aware of the claim of some that these terms may refer to cousins or kindred. If one looks up the Greek words for brother and sister in this passage the meaning is clear: the gospel writer means the siblings (adelphos) of the Lord. There are other passages that list the words for cousins (sungenes) as well as for brother (adelphos) or sister in the same passage (such as Luke 21:16). As to the immaculate conception does not Romans 3:23 say: "For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God." It is worth noting that the scripture says that God alone (with respect to human beings) is without sin. There is no mention in scripture for Mary being the Queen of Heaven. Nor do the early church fathers write of this. Scripture does make mention of a Queen of heaven, however, in Jeremiah 44:25. In this portion of scripture the Lord voices his great displeasure with the people of Israel for offering worship to the Queen of Heaven. Indulgences and PurgatoryIn paragraph 1030 of the CCC it says: "All who die in God’s grace and friendship, but still imperfectly purified…after death they undergo purification, so as to achieve the holiness necessary to enter the joy of heaven." The idea that regenerated believers in Christ can be imperfectly purified is not scriptural. In Hebrews 10:14 it says: " for by one offering he has made perfect forever those who are being consecrated." If believers in Christ are made perfect by the atoning sacrifice of Jesus on the cross, how can there be any that are considered impure by God? Again it is written in Hebrews 10:10: "we have been consecrated through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all." If these passages are not clear enough, we should consider what the Lord Jesus said to the "good" thief, in Luke 23:43 "..Amen I say to you, today you will be with me in Paradise." Now surely no one would claim that a thief whose crimes were so monstrous as to rate the death penalty would have been able to enter Heaven, because his acts would have rendered him impure and unclean. Instead we see that by his faith in the Lord Jesus, he was cleansed from all imperfection and entered into Christ’s presence in heaven. There is no mention in Scripture of temporal punishment for sin remaining after forgiveness.
Justification
I think that the fundamental difference between Roman Catholic doctrine and the scriptures is most pronounced with respect to how we are saved. The CCC teaches that we can merit eternal life by works done in a state of grace, and not simply by faith alone. St. Paul on the other hand writes in several places that:
The scriptures are clear that salvation comes from repentance and faith in Christ Jesus alone. We will never be justified by our own works whether done in a state of grace or not. Now some have argued that what Paul meant by the law was the ceremonial law of the Mosaic covenant. This cannot be the case, because Paul later refers to coveting as a violation of the law in Romans 7:7-13. So it can be shown that when Paul says that no one will be justified by the works of the law he is in fact referring to the moral code as well as the ceremonial codes.
The scriptures teach that we are declared righteous by God because of our faith in the Lord Jesus, not by performing penances, novenas, masses, obtaining indulgences or experiencing purgatory. Paul writes in Romans 4:6 "So also David declares the blessedness of the person to whom God credits (imputes, declares) righteousness apart from works." So it can be seen that we cannot earn our way to being declared righteous by God, or receiving supplemental graces from God to earn our way into heaven. I am not saying that those who are justified by Christ’s sacrifice on Calvary have no obligation for obedience to the Lord. Nor am I saying that one is saved by faith, and then allowed to do nothing. In fact those who are called by God our Father, regenerated by the Holy Spirit, repenting of their sins, and believing in the Lord Jesus Christ, will invariably seek to do the will of the Lord. To continue on with the passage in that was quoted earlier:
I freely believe that faith without works is dead (so did the leaders of the Reformation). God does indeed call us to repent from sin and to work in His service. Nevertheless, no human being will be justified by his own works before God (Romans 3:20), because such works can never be performed perfectly. If someone claims faith in the Lord Jesus, yet no evidence of conversion is found, that person has not yet encountered the risen Christ! I agree that sanctification, that is, being conformed to the image of the Lord Jesus, is an on going process that takes a lifetime. I agree that we are called to be holy (1 Peter 1:16) " even as He is Holy." We are to strive to complete that holiness, (Hebrews 12:14) "without which no one will see the Lord." The work of that holiness comes from the Lord and is His work, and not from ourselves (Ephesians 2:10). By our own efforts we will not succeed. The Eucharist.I fully agree that the Eucharist, true to the meaning of the original Greek, is in fact an offering of praise and thanksgiving to God. It is also certainly a memorial like the Passover, and we are certainly called to be obedient to Christ by celebrating it and proclaiming his death until He comes again. Where Catholic doctrine begins to differ with Scripture is when it states (Paragraph 1367 of the CCC) that the sacrifice of the Mass is a propitiatory sacrifice, and that Christ is re-sacrificed, but in an unbloody manner. According to Scripture an unbloody sacrifice is not propitiatory, Hebrews 9:22 "and without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness." The scriptures actually declare that there is no longer an offering for sin, because Christ died once and for all (Romans 6:10). The author of Hebrews declares in 10:18 "Where there is forgiveness of these (sins), there is no longer offering for sin." Again in Hebrews 10:10 " We have been consecrated through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all."
I am not claiming that Christ is not present in the Eucharist. He is most certainly present in Spirit. He cannot be physically present in the Eucharist because He is in heaven at the right hand of the Father. He will come again physically at the second coming. Did not the angels say to the apostles in Acts 1:11 "Men of Galilee, why are you standing there looking up at he sky? This Jesus who has been taken up from you into heaven, will return in the same way as you have seen him going into heaven." Many people in the West today think that the word "spiritual" is synonymous with "not there." I totally disagree with them. Christ is in fact spiritually present with us during the Eucharist, even as he is present in the hearts and spirits of believers. Worship of ImagesOne of the things that has bothered me about the Catholic faith since the beginning, is the reverence and worship offered to images and statues. I tried to ignore this at first, because many a catechist had likened the use of sacred images to keeping of pictures of Jesus, or family members in the home. The problem with this argument is that I don’t worship pictures of my relatives or bow down to them, or pray to them. There is a clear injunction in the second commandment in Exodus 20:4 " You shall not carve idols for yourselves in the shape of anything in the sky above or on the earth below, or in the waters beneath the earth; you shall not bow down before them or worship them." How can I respect the church’s teaching and maintain a clear conscience before the Lord our God? Scripture no where teaches that we are to pray to any other being other than the Lord. Scripture and TraditionI have no problem with tradition. Tradition must, however be subordinate to and in agreement with the Scriptures or it is not from God. As I have shown above there are a number of traditions of the RCC that are not in agreement with the Scriptures. What does the Bible say about the authority of Scripture? In 2 Timothy 3:16 St Paul writes: "All scripture is inspired by God and is useful for teaching, for refutation, for correction, and for training in righteousness, so that one who belongs to God may be perfect, equipped for every good work." Some Catholic apologists have argued that Saint Paul was speaking about an independent, parallel, unrecorded Gospel contained in an oral tradition in 2 Thessalonians 2:15 and 2 Thessalonians 3:6. The problem with this concept is that Paul tells us elsewhere in 1 Corinthians 15:3, 11 " The chief message I handed on to you, as it was handed on to me, was that Christ, as the Scriptures foretold, died for our sins…That is our preaching, mine or theirs as you will; that is the faith that has come to you." It was interesting to discover what St. Augustine had to write about Scripture and Tradition:
PapacyThe RCC teaches that the Pope is the head of the entire Christian church, and as such exercises supreme authority, and is guaranteed to be free of error when teaching on faith or morals (CCC 881 through 891). If the Pope is infallible, how can he and the Magisterium of the church teach doctrines that contradict Scripture? The foundational passage in Scripture used to justify the Pope’s position is Matthew 16:18-19: "And so I say to you, you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church…I will give you the keys to the kingdom of heaven. Whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven; and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven." If the Roman interpretation is correct then Peter did indeed have the keys. How did the early church fathers interpret this key passage?
It appears, that at least in the early church, that the rock referred to by the Lord was the faith of Peter, not Peter himself. In 1 Peter 5:1 Peter writes: " Therefore, I exhort you the elders among you, as your fellow elder and witness of the sufferings of Christ…" Note that Peter does not refer to himself as the supreme pontiff, rather as a fellow elder! Saint Paul rebuked Peter for his compromising of the Gospel at the Council of Jerusalem. This is recorded in Galatians 2:11-14 and Acts 15. It is worth noting that after Paul’s rebuke that Peter actually repented and changed his position. Where is infallibility in this?
Just for the record there was a Pope who was branded as a heretic. Pope Honorius (625-638 AD) was condemned as a heretic by the Sixth Ecumenical council for supporting monotheletism. Pope Liberius (352-356) signed an Arian confession and denounced Athanasius in order to maintain his See against pressure from the Emperor Constantius II. Pope Zosimus (417-418) rebuked Augustine and the North African church for their condemnation of Pelagius and his heretical teachings. The North African church subsequently rejected the directions and admonitions of Zosimus. Apparently the church has not always believed what Rome requires that we believe today. As I review all these findings I find myself squarely in the position of the Reformed church. How surprising! I thought it would turn out the other way. By God’s grace I am headed back to the faith of my fathers after all. In the Service of Jesus Christ our Lord, Robert W. Mayberry Note: In the parish priest's response to my letter he did not comment on any of the doctrinal issues that I raised.
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Not true! Just a few short threads ago my posts were pulled by the RM. The posts, while seductive zingers, were not personal attacks in any way. I was given no explanation. I swore the RM must be a RCCer because my stance was very strongly opposing RCC doctrine.
It's refreshing to see that the RM is an equal opportunity wet blanket.
Then what were all those indulgences sold for? How about buying masses at the funeral home for the deceased? Or paying to light a candle before an idol (er... highly revered statue of a "saint")? If that isn't "earning" your way out of purgatory, then the RCC owes A LOT of refunds.
Acts 8:20
But Peter said unto him, Thy money perish with thee, because thou hast thought that the gift of God may be purchased with money.
No Matter how you frame it You have Just Rejected Christ’s own Church! Peter upon this rock I Build MY CHURCH...
not yours not the Priest, so in effect you are rejecting Christ!
much is asked of Catholics..and getting mocked is one cross we have to carry!
Faith alone isn’t the answer.... you have to practice your Faith!Understanding your Faith is one Thing, acting like you understand it is the HARD Part!
Christ’s church is built on Peter’s confession of faith, which is why the Lord said “You must be born again”.
Perhaps you have not seen the previous posts in which I mentioned that it is best to be in both the spiritual and ordination lineage of the early church. However, if one must pick, it is far better to be in the spiritual lineage.
The following is what I am getting at. It is better to be in the spiritual lineage of Christ. I would take a down-home, locally ordained, off-the-wall Baptist, than one of these:
While he was a high school seminary rector in the 1970's, Anthony O'Connell sexually molested at least one teenage boy enrolled in his seminary for three years. In 1988, O'Connell agreed to accept episcopal ordination, despite knowing that he was a child molester. In 1996, O'Connell participated in a money settlement with the boy he molested (by then a man) arranged by the Diocese of Jefferson City. In early 1998, Keith Symons resigned as Bishop of Palm Beach after confessing that he molested five teenage boys while he was a priest. In late 1998, O'Connell agreed to be translated from the Diocese of Knoxville to the Diocese of Palm Beach, despite his knowledge of his own confessed molestation of a minor and the circumstances of his predecessor's resignation. Finally, no one in the Diocese of Jefferson City prevented O'Connell's transfer from Knoxville despite their knowledge of the settlement made two years earlier.That two child molesters should be elevated to the episcopate is bad enough; that a confessed child molester should be appointed to replace a confessed child molester is grotesquely negligent. The simple facts of this shameful episode demonstrate several systemic problems in the selection, appointment, and translation of bishops:
Actually, you were the one to make that claim. You have a selective memory and such a high opinion of yourself that you even place your words in others' mouths.
You wrote:
“”Lie?” I’m working from RCC documents and the writings of RCC apologists.”
Nonsense. Let me demonstrate:
“good works of the faithful.”
Started by Christ IN US.
“It makes human works the basis for justification which merit eternal life.”
The above statement is NOT from either any “RCC documents” nor “the writings of RCC apologists.” It was cut and pasted from an anti-catholic website called Jesus-is-Lord.com and does not represent what the Church teaches. So far, you are 0 for 2. Let’s try again:
“justified, by the good works which he performs”
I have a copy of the Canons and Decrees of the Council of Trent. And your Schaff translation seems to be a serious reduction of about ten pages of text. Knowing you as little as I do, I still know you probably just cut and pasted this from an anti-Catholic website. When you post the passage as it actually stands and can list where it really comes from (in Trent) I’ll bother trying to look it up again.
“Justification is the declaration of the righteousness of the believer.”
You got this from Jesus-is-Lord.com as well. Cut and paste. No genuine research, huh? No surprise there.
Notice the citation you posted?:
“(Ludwig Ott, Fundamentals of Catholic Dogma (Rockford: Tan, 1974), pp.254, 264).”
One quote drawn from over ten pages? Ten pages?
I can see right away that the quote you underlined was taken out of context. I’m looking at the page right now. The passage doesn’t even get the words right: “...by works, the good works proceeding from Christian Faith; by justification, the declaration of the righteousness of the Christian before the judgment seat of God.”
The anti-Catholics you borrowed this cut and paste from dropped the previous 4 lines of the text, and dropped the word “Christian” as well. Strange, is it not, that your anti-Catholic buddies don’t want to show you the whole context or actually get the passage right with all of its words?
As I said, we have NEVER taught that men can “earn their right standing before God.” That’s utter nonsense. Anti-Catholics have to create phony renderings of our books to even get close to that.
Thanks for proving my point.
Here is what the Catholic Church states on the sacraments:
You wrote:
“Actually, you were the one to make that claim.”
Nope. I made no “claim”. I pointed out the obvious and you essentially agreed.
“You have a selective memory and such a high opinion of yourself that you even place your words in others’ mouths.”
Nope. Here’s what you wrote in post #13 of another thread that I’ll link to: “So, you’re telling me that Eastern Orthodox isn’t Catholic?”
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/1840213/posts?q=1&;page=1
My memory is just fine.
You wrote:
“Then what were all those indulgences sold for?”
You would have to ask those people who violated canon law by selling them. The Catholic Church never once approved such sales.
“How about buying masses at the funeral home for the deceased?”
1) No Masses are bought. Donations are made. If someone can’t make a donation, the Mass is still said. Thus, no sale. 2) Also, the Masses are almost always said at parishes and NOT at funeral homes. 3) Prayers for the dead are about aiding those in Purgatory. Everyone in Purgatory is already Heaven bound.
“Or paying to light a candle before an idol (er... highly revered statue of a “saint”)?”
You donate money to pay for NEW CANDLES!!! The parish has to buy them after all. The money has nothing to do with the prayers in themselves. If you can’t donate money, you still get to light the candle. The candle light is just a symbol. It has no spiritual significance in itself. You really have no idea of what you’re talking about do you?
“If that isn’t “earning” your way out of purgatory, then the RCC owes A LOT of refunds.”
1) You have yet to show a single example of anyone “earning” their way into heaven according to some supposed Catholic beliefs you must believe we have. 2) You tried a bait-n-switch by saying that people “earn” their way out of Purgatory, but that too is untrue. Prayers help those in Purgatory but only because of the blood of Christ. No one can “earn” their way or “spend” their way out of Purgatory. People who need to be further cleansed by the blood of Christ (because of their own attachment to sin) go through the Final Theosis in Purgatory.
If you’re going to attack the Catholic faith, at least attack the real Catholic faith and not the fantasy product of your own making.
You wrote: “To me I can read this multiple ways; 1) that the sacraments are necessary or 2) not. Would you care to interpret precisely what the Church is saying here?”
Did you read the whole passage: “It is the teaching of the Catholic Church and of Christians in general that, whilst God was nowise bound to make use of external ceremonies as symbols of things spiritual and sacred, it has pleased Him to do so, and this is the ordinary and most suitable manner of dealing with men...It is not really a necessity, but the most appropriate manner of dealing with creatures that are at the same time spiritual and corporeal.”
Seems pretty clear to me.
Hardly. Many of the converts realize the exact opposite, that their former confessions were OUTSIDE of historic Christianity evidenced by Scripture and the Fathers. They are quite free to admit that they were wrong, but they don't deny the things that were good and holy in their former confessions.
The subject of this thread has raised some valid claims about RCC theology; none of which has been refuted by an RCC poster.
That is because the issues are legion, and this thread has long ago proved its uselessness. If you want to find out about these issues, I suggest reading something like David Currie's book Born Fundamentalist, Born Again Catholic.
xzins,
Anyone infrequently-posting-but-often-lurking on these threads has no problem whatever in discerning that a great number of frequent posters have high opinions of themselves. The only ones who seem not to see this are those who own it.
No coffee yet—
I forgot to say that telling someone they have a high opinion of themselves is a quite personal attack.
Just don’t slip up and call anyone “thou fool”.
Very hard to believe that this guy would have converted to Catholicism in the first place or that he could have been an RCIA instructor(!) considering all of the mistakes he makes about Catholic teaching.
Do you have any verification of this story?
At my ordination, in addition to my own bishop and some of my fellow elders, one of his friends, a Jesuit priest, participated.
Do you believe the laying on of hands creates a special bond/lineage. I know the myth of appostolic succession depends on it. Just wondering what my brothers in the Lutheran Church believe.
There is NOTHING about Catholic Church Doctrine that is false. Preach that it is at your own peril.
Jesus does NOT like His mother being dissed.
right.
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