The Doctrine of Purgatory

http://www.therealpresence.org/archives/Eschatology/Eschatology_006.htm ^ | Unknown | Fr. John A. Hardon, S.J

[Vicomte13]

"grounded upon no warranty of Scripture"

Gehenna - Jesus.
Gehenna IS Purgatory, and Hell. Same thing. Temporary hell for those cleansed. Permanent hell for the wicked. Go ask the Jews.

[kawaii]

Really? Cause mine says that at the final judgement all those dead in hell are judged.

Rev 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

[stfassisi]

Scripture DOES support Purgatory quite well

Taken from Scripturecatholic.com
http://www.scripturecatholic.com/purgatory.html

Scripture

I. A State After Death of Suffering and Forgiveness
Matt. 5:26,18:34; Luke 12:58-59 – Jesus teaches us, “Come to terms with your opponent or you will be handed over to the judge and thrown into prison. You will not get out until you have paid the last penny.” The word “opponent” (antidiko) is likely a reference to the devil (see the same word for devil in 1 Pet. 5:8) who is an accuser against man (c.f. Job 1.6-12; Zech. 3.1; Rev. 12.10), and God is the judge. If we have not adequately dealt with satan and sin in this life, we will be held in a temporary state called a prison, and we won’t get out until we have satisfied our entire debt to God. This “prison” is purgatory where we will not get out until the last penny is paid.

Matt. 5:48 - Jesus says, "be perfect, even as your heavenly Father is perfect." We are only made perfect through purification, and in Catholic teaching, this purification, if not completed on earth, is continued in a transitional state we call purgatory.

Matt. 12:32 – Jesus says, “And anyone who says a word against the Son of man will be forgiven; but no one who speaks against the Holy Spirit will be forgiven either in this world or in the next.” Jesus thus clearly provides that there is forgiveness after death. The phrase “in the next” (from the Greek “en to mellonti”) generally refers to the afterlife (see, for example, Mark 10.30; Luke 18.30; 20.34-35; Eph. 1.21 for similar language). Forgiveness is not necessary in heaven, and there is no forgiveness in hell. This proves that there is another state after death, and the Church for 2,000 years has called this state purgatory.

Luke 12:47-48 - when the Master comes (at the end of time), some will receive light or heavy beatings but will live. This state is not heaven or hell, because in heaven there are no beatings, and in hell we will no longer live with the Master.

Luke 16:19-31 - in this story, we see that the dead rich man is suffering but still feels compassion for his brothers and wants to warn them of his place of suffering. But there is no suffering in heaven or compassion in hell because compassion is a grace from God and those in hell are deprived from God's graces for all eternity. So where is the rich man? He is in purgatory.

1 Cor. 15:29-30 - Paul mentions people being baptized on behalf of the dead, in the context of atoning for their sins (people are baptized on the dead’s behalf so the dead can be raised). These people cannot be in heaven because they are still with sin, but they also cannot be in hell because their sins can no longer be atoned for. They are in purgatory. These verses directly correspond to 2 Macc. 12:44-45 which also shows specific prayers for the dead, so that they may be forgiven of their sin.

Phil. 2:10 - every knee bends to Jesus, in heaven, on earth, and "under the earth" which is the realm of the righteous dead, or purgatory.

2 Tim. 1:16-18 - Onesiphorus is dead but Paul asks for mercy on him “on that day.” Paul’s use of “that day” demonstrates its eschatological usage (see, for example, Rom. 2.5,16; 1 Cor. 1.8; 3.13; 5.5; 2 Cor. 1.14; Phil. 1.6,10; 2.16; 1 Thess. 5.2,4,5,8; 2 Thess. 2.2,3; 2 Tim. 4.8). Of course, there is no need for mercy in heaven, and there is no mercy given in hell. Where is Onesiphorus? He is in purgatory.

Heb. 12:14 - without holiness no one will see the Lord. We need final sanctification to attain true holiness before God, and this process occurs during our lives and, if not completed during our lives, in the transitional state of purgatory.

Heb. 12:23 - the spirits of just men who died in godliness are "made" perfect. They do not necessarily arrive perfect. They are made perfect after their death. But those in heaven are already perfect, and those in hell can no longer be made perfect. These spirits are in purgatory.

1 Peter 3:19; 4:6 - Jesus preached to the spirits in the "prison." These are the righteous souls being purified for the beatific vision.

Rev. 21:4 - God shall wipe away their tears, and there will be no mourning or pain, but only after the coming of the new heaven and the passing away of the current heaven and earth. Note the elimination of tears and pain only occurs at the end of time. But there is no morning or pain in heaven, and God will not wipe away their tears in hell. These are the souls experiencing purgatory.

Rev. 21:27 - nothing unclean shall enter heaven. The word “unclean” comes from the Greek word “koinon” which refers to a spiritual corruption. Even the propensity to sin is spiritually corrupt, or considered unclean, and must be purified before entering heaven. It is amazing how many Protestants do not want to believe in purgatory. Purgatory exists because of the mercy of God. If there were no purgatory, this would also likely mean no salvation for most people. God is merciful indeed.

Luke 23:43 – many Protestants argue that, because Jesus sent the good thief right to heaven, there can be no purgatory. There are several rebuttals. First, when Jesus uses the word "paradise,” He did not mean heaven. Paradise, from the Hebrew "sheol," meant the realm of the righteous dead. This was the place of the dead who were destined for heaven, but who were captive until the Lord's resurrection. Second, since there was no punctuation in the original manuscript, Jesus’ statement “I say to you today you will be with me in paradise” does not mean there was a comma after the first word “you.” This means Jesus could have said, “I say to you today, you will be with me in paradise” (meaning, Jesus could have emphasized with exclamation his statement was “today” or “now,” and that some time in the future the good thief would go to heaven). Third, even if the thief went straight to heaven, this does not prove there is no purgatory (those who are fully sanctified in this life – perhaps by a bloody and repentant death – could be ready for admission in to heaven).

Gen. 50:10; Num. 20:29; Deut. 34:8 - here are some examples of ritual prayer and penitent mourning for the dead for specific periods of time. The Jewish understanding of these practices was that the prayers freed the souls from their painful state of purification, and expedited their journey to God.

Baruch 3:4 - Baruch asks the Lord to hear the prayers of the dead of Israel. Prayers for the dead are unnecessary in heaven and unnecessary in hell. These dead are in purgatory.

Zech. 9:11 - God, through the blood of His covenant, will set those free from the waterless pit, a spiritual abode of suffering which the Church calls purgatory.

2 Macc. 12:43-45 - the prayers for the dead help free them from sin and help them to the reward of heaven. Those in heaven have no sin, and those in hell can no longer be freed from sin. They are in purgatory. Luther was particularly troubled with these verses because he rejected the age-old teaching of purgatory. As a result, he removed Maccabees from the canon of the Bible.




II. Purification After Death By Fire
Heb. 12:29 - God is a consuming fire (of love in heaven, of purgation in purgatory, or of suffering and damnation in hell).

1 Cor. 3:10-15 - works are judged after death and tested by fire. Some works are lost, but the person is still saved. Paul is referring to the state of purgation called purgatory. The venial sins (bad works) that were committed are burned up after death, but the person is still brought to salvation. This state after death cannot be heaven (no one with venial sins is present) or hell (there is no forgiveness and salvation).

1 Cor. 3:15 – “if any man’s work is burned up, he will suffer loss, though he himself will be saved, but only as through fire.” The phrase for "suffer loss" in the Greek is "zemiothesetai." The root word is "zemioo" which also refers to punishment. The construction “zemiothesetai” is used in Ex. 21:22 and Prov. 19:19 which refers to punishment (from the Hebrew “anash” meaning “punish” or “penalty”). Hence, this verse proves that there is an expiation of temporal punishment after our death, but the person is still saved. This cannot mean heaven (there is no punishment in heaven) and this cannot mean hell (the possibility of expiation no longer exists and the person is not saved).

1 Cor. 3:15 – further, Paul writes “he himself will be saved, "but only" (or “yet so”) as through fire.” “He will be saved” in the Greek is “sothesetai” (which means eternal salvation). The phrase "but only" (or “yet so”) in the Greek is "houtos" which means "in the same manner." This means that man is both eternally rewarded and eternally saved in the same manner by fire.

1 Cor. 3:13 - when Paul writes about God revealing the quality of each man's work by fire and purifying him, this purification relates to his sins (not just his good works). Protestants, in attempting to disprove the reality of purgatory, argue that Paul was only writing about rewarding good works, and not punishing sins (because punishing and purifying a man from sins would be admitting that there is a purgatory).

1 Cor. 3:17 - but this verse proves that the purgation after death deals with punishing sin. That is, destroying God's temple is a bad work, which is a mortal sin, which leads to death. 1 Cor. 3:14,15,17 - purgatory thus reveals the state of righteousness (v.14), state of venial sin (v.15) and the state of mortal sin (v.17), all of which are judged after death.

1 Peter 1:6-7 - Peter refers to this purgatorial fire to test the fruits of our faith.

Jude 1:23 - the people who are saved are being snatched out of the fire. People are already saved if they are in heaven, and there is no possibility of salvation if they are in hell. These people are being led to heaven from purgatory.

Rev. 3:18-19 - Jesus refers to this fire as what refines into gold those He loves if they repent of their sins. This is in the context of after death because Jesus, speaking from heaven, awards the white garment of salvation after the purgation of fire (both after death).

Dan 12:10 - Daniel refers to this refining by saying many shall purify themselves, make themselves white and be refined.

Wis. 3:5-6 - the dead are disciplined and tested by fire to receive their heavenly reward. This is the fire of purgatory.

Sirach 2:5 - for gold is tested in the fire, and acceptable men in the furnace of humiliation.

Zech. 13:8-9 - God says 2/3 shall perish, and 1/3 shall be left alive, put into the fire, and refined like silver and tested like gold. The ones that perish go to hell, and there is no need for refinement in heaven, so those being refined are in purgatory.

Mal. 3:2-3 - also refers to God's purification of the righteous at their death.

[pjr12345]

Cause mine says that at the final judgement all those dead in hell are judged.

You got it! And what will they be judged for? The time they've spent in hell or the time they squandered on earth?

A wise man once told me, "All roads lead to God. Only one road leads to the Father, His Son Jesus Christ."

There is only one verdict for any man that stands before God in judgment: GUILTY!

Thank God for His Son Jesus Christ who paid the price for my sin so I don't have to. And that means PAID IN FULL. Jesus doesn't half-step.

You folks that buy into Purgatory are buying into the concept that the Sacrifice of God's own Son is somehow incomplete, imperfect.

Keep your vain philosophies of men. I'm sticking with Scripture!

[kawaii]

point being if they're in hell they've been judged TWICE by the end, not once.

point being the prayers of the saints intercede (also in revelation) BEFORE the FINAL judgement.

[kawaii]

And I don't beleive in PURGATORY!

[Bigg Red]

You're over four hundred years behind the times. The selling of indulgences was explicitly condemned by the Council of Trent.

**
It's pointless to argue with the haters, my friend.

[Vicomte13]

"'And the wine failing, the mother of Jesus saith to him:They have no wine.
And Jesus saith to her: Woman, what is that to me and to thee? my hour is not yet come.
His mother saith to the waiters: Whatsoever he shall say to you, do ye.'
*Mary was nagging, huh?"

Yep.
Telling her son to perform a miracle, and not taking no for an answer.
Mama (giving "the look" to her boy): They're out of wine!

Son (seeing "the look" and knowing what she wants, irritatedly): Why's that OUR problem, woman? [The "woman" bit to his mother is certainly sharp!] And anyway, I'm not supposed to DO public miracles yet, it's not my TIME yet!"

Mama (completely ignoring everything her son has just said, addressing the help): "Do whatever he tells ya!"

Yeah. Nagging.
Mary's the only person in the Bible who ever demanded God do something God said he DIDN'T WANT TO DO, ignored God's response, and then God gave in and did it anyway.
The relationship between God and his mother is very interesting, as is the relationship between any son and his mother.
Right in this little passage, with Mary sort of pushing her boy around in public a little bit, we get a tiny glimpse as to why it is NOT a brilliant idea for anybody to go shooting off his lip about God's mother. God chose Mary as His bride, and to be his own mother, to raise him, nurse him, and be with him to the very end. So whatever her theological significance, she was evidently terribly significant to GOD, His favorite. God had twelve apostles and many prophets, but only ONE mother.

I would respectfully tell our Protestant friends to think, hard, about what they can possibly gain by going hammer and tongs after Mary the way some of them do. God chose this woman above all others. Sure, Jesus said that John the Baptist was greater than all other MEN, but Mary wasn't a man. Catholics shouldn't dig at Protestants too much to bend the knee to Mary. There are too many more important things to worry about. Still, in the interest of everybody's long-term well-being, I would advise a LITTLE BIT of caution, at least, in talking about God's mom.

Nobody likes people who pick on their mom.
What margin is there for anyone, then, on picking on Jesus' mother?
Just seems like a bad idea.
Just seems like one of those things that can at best result in a Pyrrhic Victory.
Especially since God evidently thinks highly enough of his mother to make HER the subject of visions and healings unlike anywhere else at Lourdes.
What BETTER proof of Mary's special relationship to God than the fact that there's no Protestant, or Jewish, or Muslim or Hindu Lourdes? And there's no Lourdes of St. Luke or St. John the Baptist either.

Mary tells Jesus what to do at Cana. He doesn't LIKE IT (his language is correct but impatient and not polite), but he follows the commandment, honors his mother for a command performance miracle, and amazes his friends, thereby launching his preaching career.

Lots of lessons here.
Best one is: be nice about Mary.
If your doctrine takes you in a direction where you're tearing down God's mom, be superstitious and don't do it, for your own good. Nobody's going to get a cookie at judgment from God for insulting his mother.

[bornacatholic]

Sorry, there are no popes in the Bible!

*True. There is but one.

[bornacatholic]

Millions?

[pjr12345]

Matt. 5:26,18:34; Luke 12:58-59 – Jesus teaches us, “Come to terms with your opponent or you will be handed over to the judge and thrown into prison.

Parables teaching particular point, not commentaries about the afterlife and its make up.

Matt. 5:48 - Jesus says, "be perfect, even as your heavenly Father is perfect." We are only made perfect through purification, and in Catholic teaching, this purification, if not completed on earth, is continued in a transitional state we call purgatory.

Talks about being perfect. Your extrapolation as a reference to Purgatory, while creative, is utterly ridiculous.

Matt. 12:32 – Jesus says, “And anyone who says a word against the Son of man will be forgiven; but no one who speaks against the Holy Spirit will be forgiven either in this world or in the next.” Jesus thus clearly provides that there is forgiveness after death.

More nonsense. Your conclusion makes absolutely no sense.

Luke 12:47-48; Luke 16:19-31

More parables. They were used to make specific points about specific topics. They teach very good lessons about the topics the Lord intended to teach about. Using them beyond his intention is nothing more than opportunism.

1 Cor. 15:29-30

An odd verse to be sure, but doesn't discuss Purgatory in any way.

Phil. 2:10

Did you simply pull random verses that talk about the final judgment? This has nothing to do with anything other than Christ's supremacy over all creation.

2 Tim. 1:16-18 - Onesiphorus is dead but Paul asks for mercy on him “on that day.

WRONG. Paul asks for mercy on the HOUSE of Onesiphorus. Your omission is incredulous!

And so on, and so forth... You have ABSOLUTELY NO SCRIPTURAL SUPPORT for Purgatory.

You do, however, have non-Scriptural support with Maccabbees and Baruch. Again, this perverse concept is the main reason the RCC added these non-inspired books to their bible.

[1000 silverlings]

Nice little story you got going there, but the verse about Mary telling the servants to do as Jesus tells them has a parallel in the OT and means something else all together, and has to do with God, not Mary. The wording is pretty identical and with a little study you will find it.

[xzins]

I saved the pic to my files. It is informative.


The problem with arguing purgatory is that it brings a host of other doctrinal differences to the fore, and each one of those must be individually dealt with.

And the ultimate answer on each one of them: The Magisterium said so.

[bornacatholic]

The charge of killing millions is John Fox-worthy - and just as funny as some of the material of Jeff Foxworthy

[Vicomte13]

Gehenna is NOT hell and eternity.

Jesus was a Jew, talking to Jews.
When Jesus used a Jewish term, like "Korban", if he wanted to CORRECT a Jewish tradition or understanding of the term, he did so. He even corrected Jewish SCRIPTURE itself!

But Jesus just said "Gehenna", and used it in sentence after sentence, to make a point, to Jews.
To JEWS, Gehenna means Hell AND Purgatory. Those who are not lost forever are sent to hell and purged of their sins there, then go to Paradise.

That is what "Gehenna" means. Jesus didn't define it, because he didn't HAVE to. He was talking to Jews. Every Jew understood that meaning. Still do.

Gehenna does NOT necessarily mean permanent hell.

Christians can repeat over and over again that it DOES, but they don't know what they are talking about.

A Jew talking to Jews just saying Gehenna and using it meant what JEWS meant by it, and Gehenna to JEWS includes Purgatory.

It's not really a debatable point.
If Christians have built 4 centuries of doctrines squabbling over this but never bothered to consult the Jews it's the CHRISTIAN'S problem. Jesus was a Jew, and to a JEW, what Jesus meant is clear.
And it's clear to any Christian that reads it as a Jew would read it.

Gehenna is a place of torment, temporal for some, permanent for others, depending on how bad they were in life.
That's just not hard to understand. It's what the term MEANS. If Christians prefer their own traditional doctrines, which don't date from very ancient times at all but from times after they ceased being in close contact with Judaism intellectually, well, they can do so, but the text is self-explanatory, and with just one word Jesus has given the whole answer. Unfortunately, apparently only Jews can understand it, and unfortunately they don't read the Gospels much.

It's sort of like the Great Commandment. It's the opening of the Shema. But Jews today don't know it, and neither do Christians. Pity. Jesus knew that. So did his Jewish audience. And that was a big thing, and why he was so praised for saying it.

[pjr12345]

And many still deny the Holocaust, too!

[bornacatholic]

So, you deny the Easter Bunny is gay?

If you HAVE evidence the Pope ordered the murder of millions, post it.

[bornacatholic]

It's not really a debatable point.

*BALDERDASH

[Dr. Eckleburg]

Nice little story you got going there, but the verse about Mary telling the servants to do as Jesus tells them has a parallel in the OT and means something else all together, and has to do with God, not Mary. The wording is pretty identical and with a little study you will find it.

There you go again, interpreting Scripture with Scripture instead of by the fables of men and magisteriums.

Mary as cookie-giver; as the instructor to God on earth! What foolishness. Mary is hardly mentioned in the Bible after Christ's birth. God granted her humility in order to be the mother of Jesus Christ. No doubt she would shudder at what has been said and done in her name.

[1000 silverlings]

Very insightful post Dr.Eckleburg, but then that is why you're the Doctor.