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BTTT!
We do the "Nicene Creed" in the Catholic Church which is slightly different. The part that struck me was the mention of hell. We have "He suffered, died and was buried. On the third day he rose again."
So what part of the Apostles' Creed is contradicted by that thread or by that poster?
Perhaps you could explain why you didn't ping him to this thread?
I've noticed recently that the version of the Creed that we say has been "gender-neutralized."
I'm not Catholic but I have no problem with the Apostle's Creed as it's all based on scripture.
Where do you get that from?
"I wonder what and how the Apostle's Creed fits into the worldview of those who reject the Catholic Church and post this to better understand that viewpoint."
What's to wonder about? It's scriptural.
The Creed
As the head of the family should teach it in a simple way to his household.
The First Article.
Of Creation.
I believe in God the Father Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth.
What does this mean?--Answer.
I believe that God has made me and all creatures; that He has given me my body and soul, eyes, ears, and all my limbs, my reason, and all my senses, and still preserves them; in addition thereto, clothing and shoes, meat and drink, house and homestead, wife and children, fields, cattle, and all my goods; that He provides me richly and daily with all that I need to support this body and life, protects me from all danger, and guards me and preserves me from all evil; and all this out of pure, fatherly, divine goodness and mercy, without any merit or worthiness in me; for all which I owe it to Him to thank, praise, serve, and obey Him. This is most certainly true.
The Second Article.
Of Redemption.
And in Jesus Christ, His only Son, our Lord; who was conceived by the Holy Ghost, born of the Virgin Mary; suffered under Pontius Pilate, was crucified, dead, and buried; He descended into hell; the third day He rose again from the dead; He ascended into heaven, and sitteth on the right hand of God the Father Almighty; from thence He shall come to judge the quick and the dead.
What does this mean?--Answer.
I believe that Jesus Christ, true God, begotten of the Father from eternity, and also true man, born of the Virgin Mary, is my Lord, who has redeemed me, a lost and condemned creature, purchased and won [delivered] me from all sins, from death, and from the power of the devil, not with gold or silver, but with His holy, precious blood and with His innocent suffering and death, in order that I may be [wholly] His own, and live under Him in His kingdom, and serve Him in everlasting righteousness, innocence, and blessedness, even as He is risen from the dead, lives and reigns to all eternity. This is most certainly true.
The Third Article.
Of Sanctification.
I believe in the Holy Ghost; one holy Christian Church, the communion of saints; the forgiveness of sins; the resurrection of the body; and the life everlasting. Amen.
What does this mean?--Answer.
I believe that I cannot by my own reason or strength believe in Jesus Christ, my Lord, or come to Him; but the Holy Ghost has called me by the Gospel, enlightened me with His gifts, sanctified and kept me in the true faith; even as He calls, gathers, enlightens, and sanctifies the whole Christian Church on earth, and keeps it with Jesus Christ in the one true faith; in which Christian Church He forgives daily and richly all sins to me and all believers, and at the last day will raise up me and all the dead, and will give to me and to all believers in Christ everlasting life. This is most certainly true.
Though I prefer "Our Father"; a good Hebrew prayer.
In our family, we say "the quick and the dead," the way I learned it in an old-fashioned Presbyterian church.
ARTICLE I : "I BELIEVE IN GOD, THE FATHER ALMIGHTY, CREATOR OF HEAVEN AND EARTH"
ARTICLE II : "AND IN JESUS CHRIST, HIS ONLY SON, OUR LORD"
ARTICLE III : "WHO WAS CONCEIVED BY THE HOLY GHOST, BORN OF THE VIRGIN MARY"
ARTICLE IV : "SUFFERED UNDER PONTIUS PILATE, WAS CRUCIFIED, DEAD, AND BURIED'"
ARTICLE V : "HE DESCENDED INTO HELL, THE THIRD DAY HE ROSE AGAIN FROM THE DEAD"
ARTICLE VI : "HE ASCENDED INTO HEAVEN, SITTETH AT THE RIGHT HAND OF GOD THE FATHER ALMIGHTY"
ARTICLE VII : "FROM THENCE HE SHALL COME TO JUDGE THE LIVING AND THE DEAD"
ARTICLE VIII : "I BELIEVE IN THE HOLY GHOST"
ARTICLE IX : "I BELIEVE IN THE HOLY CATHOLIC CHURCH; THE COMMUNION OF SAINTS"
ARTICLE X : "THE FORGIVENESS OF SINS"
Although fundamentalists are non-creedal, there is nothing objectionable in the Apostles` Creed when it is correctly presented and interpreted. There are several different translations, of course, but your version correctly refers to "the holy catholic church". Knowledgable fundamentalists do believe in the holy catholic church, and in fact believe that they are members of it. The disagreement is over the identification of the invisible catholic church with the visible Chruch of Rome.
In regard to Mary, there is no disagreement with the idea that Christ was born to a virgin. The disagreement is over what does not appear in the creeds: whether Mary remained a virgin.
First, the thread "Challenge: A Scriptural Portrait of Mary" was never established to attack any religion. It was intended to be exactly what it was titled.
Second, establishing this thread as retaliation to a different thread is disingenuous and misleading.
Third, while I appreciate your having the "thoughtfulness" to alert me to your attack, I am not interested in being dragged into your debate. I do not acknowledge the authority of any man-made creed, and see no point in debating its merits or faults.
Finally, Religion Moderator, considering the other thread was pulled, will you allow this retaliatory thread to exist, knowing full well that its thinly veiled intent?
thank you.
Challenge: Explain the Apostle's Creed (Vanity)
Why the Creed Doesn't Mention the Eucharist
The Apostles' Creed in Public and Private Worship
More Than Our Father [The Creed]
Fr. Samuel Edwards' sermons on the Nicene Creed now available in PDF
Of the magisterial Protestants (Presbyterians, Anglicans, and, more or less, Methodists) we've always accepted the Apostles Creed...in fact, it's the creed most commonly heard in Protestant churches. All the ecumenical creeds are accepted though. Following old practice, the Apostles Creed is typically done in services without Communion, and the Nicene Creed is done when Communion is offered.
Protestants differ from Roman Catholics on the meaning of "holy Catholic Church" giving it the original meaning of simply "holy universal Church" NOT the organnization run only by Rome.
The virgin birth of Jesus is and has been accepted by all orthodox Christians.
Since the bible never teaches it, the virginity of Mary AFTER Jesus birth though, is not assumed. As a matter of fact, since a sex abstinent marriage is called a sin in the New Testament, I for one would assume that unless Joseph was infirm, the blessed and devout Mary must have had normal relations with him, AFTER Jesus was born. The references to Jesus "brothers" in the gospels in context would make that appear the most logical and biblical position.
Also the fact that the early gentile church had serious Greek dualistic influences (gnosticism, Mannaceeism neo-Platonism, etc) against the goodness of the God-created body, would appear to account for the old Roman Catholic (and Greek) tradition of Mary's perpetual virginity (after Jesus birth).
Those dualistic anti-body ideas would also seem to account for why Mary, it was assumed, must have had a sin-free conception (the immaculate conception) herself. Again, since the Bible never mentions this...and, Mary herself calls God her Savior (why do you need a savior if you are sinless?) we see no need to assume Mary had to have a sinless nature, unique to all humanity...., to bear Christ.
Mary's perpetual virginity is not that important, in my opinion, but still I find it interesting that devout Roman Catholics fiercely defend it...as if a normal marriage for the Mother of God after Jesus was born would some how sully her holiness.
Such notions come from the backgrounds of men like Augustine more than the text of scripture and the context of Hebrew culture, in my opinion.