Posted on 08/15/2006 12:03:13 PM PDT by NYer
ROME (CNS) -- Cardinal Theodore E. McCarrick, retired archbishop of Washington, arrived in Lebanon in early August, visiting Catholic aid projects, church and government leaders and getting what he described as "a lesson in frustration."
His Aug. 10 meeting with two Muslim leaders in Beirut was canceled after Israeli planes dropped leaflets on the city warning of new bombardments.
"It scares the heck out of people," he said of the leaflet drops. "And if they don't leave, they can be killed. But it's awful; they get word to leave their homes because they are going to bomb in the next hours."
In an Aug. 10 telephone interview from Beirut, the cardinal said his visit was meant to be a sign of solidarity with the suffering people of Lebanon, the same kind of visit he has made in the past to Israel in the wake of terrorist attacks.
"I have concerns for the poor people of Lebanon. I'm not making any judgments on what political things are happening, but I know that even now there are people in some villages that are totally blocked off by the war and they have no bread, they have no water and they have no medicine. And that has been going on for almost two weeks," the cardinal told Catholic News Service.
"If that continues, it will be a disaster. We will be starving people," he said.
"I am not a politician, not a statesman and not a general. I can't blame anybody, but I want to say, 'Here is what I find,' and the world must do something," he said.
Cardinal McCarrick arrived in Beirut from Amman, Jordan, Aug. 9 aboard a Jordanian transport plane carrying humanitarian aid. He expected to leave Lebanon the same way Aug. 13.
The cardinal met Aug. 10 with Lebanese President Emile Lahoud, Prime Minister Fouad Siniora and other government officials. He said they were courteous, explained the situation in the country and expressed their hopes for a cease-fire.
"They feel they have done what everybody has asked them to do. They are willing to send 15,000 Lebanese soldiers" into southern Lebanon, where the Hezbollah militia are deployed, firing rockets and mortars into Israel.
"But apparently, that is not enough," he said.
A U.N. resolution on an immediate cease-fire faced delays as Security Council members disagreed over when Israeli troops should be asked to withdraw from southern Lebanon and when an international peacekeeping force should be deployed.
"You come here and get a lesson in frustration," the cardinal said.
Cardinal McCarrick visited several schools Aug. 9, meeting with the displaced people being sheltered in them and with the staff and volunteers of Caritas Lebanon, which is running the shelters and providing food, clothing, blankets and medical assistance.
The Salma Sayyegh public school, which he visited, has been turned into a shelter for 360 Muslims -- mostly women and children -- who have fled the fighting and bombardment of their homes in southern Lebanon.
Catholic Relief Services, the U.S. bishops' international relief and development agency, is supporting the work of Caritas Lebanon at Salma Sayyegh and throughout the country.
In addition to financial support, CRS has sent staff members experienced in the logistical side of emergency relief to assist with security, warehousing, medical care and media relations, among other things.
"Everything is difficult to get here because the bridges have been knocked down and many of the roads have been bombed so trucks can't travel, so the whole food distribution system is in peril," Cardinal McCarrick said.
Most people in Lebanon, he said, "are becoming more and more anti-Israeli," including the Christians, who also have been forced to flee. "It's a very desperate situation."
"Lebanon has the largest Christian population in the Middle East and we're losing that," he said. "The people are going to leave because they cannot work. There is no gas for the cars; there isn't food to eat. We don't know how they are going to open the schools.
"It's frustration that one feels here. They say to me, 'Thank you for coming,' but my visit is not much more than saying, 'We love you and we are praying for you and we understand your suffering,'" the cardinal said.
Cardinal McCarrick said he also wanted to let the Lebanese people know "that together with the Holy Father, we Catholics in the United States are calling for an immediate cease-fire and for corridors of safety so humanitarian goods like food and water can be delivered."
BTW, sister, don't kid yourself. Pat Buchanan and Joe Sobran have been drinking swamp water fom old Chuck Taylor sneakers. Our common mortal enemy has been around since the Seventh century. Their Doctrine is Christians and Jews are Kaffirs, infidels. They will kill you whether you support Israel or not and they were killlin me and thee more than TWELVE CENTURIES BEFORE ISRAEL WAS A STATE
Oops. Wait a minute. Oh that's right -- I AM A CHRISTIAN LEBANESE! Doh! Now I remember. Sorry.
Oh yeah, and patrick_k is in Lebanon right now -- in the South no less -- with his family. Hey, Patrick, did you realize that we have never met Christian Lebanese? I've got to remind myself to look in the mirror tomorrow morning -- just so I can discover what that strange rare creature known as a "Lebanese Christian" looks like.
But don't trouble yourself, eleni121, I'm sure it's much easier to stomach what Israel did to those little kids when you can label the entire country just a bunch of sub-human Islamic nutbars.
Funny that you think Lebanon is so "backwards". I didn't get that impression last April when all the conservative male bloggers were drooling over the so called "Cedar Babes" in Beirut. But that was then. They became non-persons once Israel went to war with Syria and Iran in Lebanon.
Like it or not, Israel is a democratic state. It is also a nation in arms, because it is surrounded by enemies who wish to destroy it. Would the author like to live in Syria or even in Egypt? Bishop Sheen noted more than 50 years ago that the Muslims were caught up in a rage, a rage that had little that time to do with Israel. It was a rage occasioned by a since of helplessness, or being inferior to the colonial powers, and it was a mood that would be traced back to the 18th Century when the Ottoman Empire began to fall apart, but which increased after the First World War as local nationalists everwhere perceived a weakness in the Colonial powers. Now they have projected their rage onto us, as the last great power, and of course, Israel which they perceive as our proxy in the region.
I think we are all God's chosen people. From your name, I assume that you are a Catholic. Therefore, I would also assume that you believe the words of St. Paul when he wrote that we are "neither Jew nor Greek, neither slave nor free, neither man nor woman; for you are all one in Christ Jesus." (Galatians 3:27-28). And that holds true whether you believe in Jesus or not.
As for Pat Buchanan, guilt by association (with Joe Sobran or anyone else) is not an argument. And it is no way to refute an argument. Argue his points. And showing me a map means nothing. I could show you a map of north America and scream about how Canada and Greenland are going to wipe us off the map. But I won't because I'm a grown up.
Do you think God's chosen people are too greedy desiring THREE PERCENT of land in the Middle east?
I believe that Israel and Palestine should co-exist as two states side by side. I believe the Palestinians have just as much a right to live on the land that their ancestors have been living on since time immemorial. Do you believe that? If not, why not. Do you think all the Israelis really want to live in peace with the Palestinians?
Sometimes a particular action perfectly captures the underlying reality and becomes iconic. Do you remember a few summers ago when Sharon was rampaging through the West Bank to "root out the terrorists"? One incident was reported in the NYT that caught my eye: The soldiers were tearing up water pipes in the various cities they where rampaging through. How can water pipes pose a danger to Israel? Water pipes are pretty tame weapons! No, the Israelis wanted to make sure that it would be as difficult as possible for Palestinians to create a viable state: You cannot have viable state without such infra-structure as water pipes. Too bad none of this was discussed in the American media.
The Israeli press, on the other hand, is a lot more balanced than ours is! They have much more diversity of opinion over there. And I believe that the moderate Israelis, like the other moderates in the Middle East, are in a struggle over the future and identity of their country. I'm wondering how long it's going to take for Americans to wake up and actually listen to what is preached by the radical Orthodox rabbis in Israel. 'Cause it's as nutty and racist as the stuff being preached by the Imams. And they can use the bible to justify their indiscriminate behavior towards non-Jews in the region just like the Imams can use the koran to incite violence against Jews and Christians.
The following biblical passage is from the book of Joshua, Chapter 10:20-43:
Once Joshua and the Israelites had finally inflicted the last blows in this very great slaughter, and the survivors had escaped from them into the fortified cities, all the army returned safely to Joshua and the camp at Makkedah, no man uttering a sound against the Israelites.Then Joshua said, "Open the mouth of the cave and bring out those five kings to me."
Obediently, they brought out to him from the cave the five kings, of Jerusalem, Hebron, Jarmuth, Lachish and Eglon. When they had done so, Joshua summoned all the men of Israel and said to the commanders of the soldiers who had marched with him, "Come forward and put your feet on the necks of these kings." They came forward and put their feet upon their necks.
Then Joshua said to them, "Do not be afraid or dismayed, be firm and steadfast. This is what the LORD will do to all the enemies against whom you fight."
Thereupon Joshua struck and killed them, and hanged them on five trees, where they remained hanging until evening.
At sunset they were removed from the trees at the command of Joshua and cast into the cave where they had hidden; over the mouth of the cave large stones were placed, which remain until this very day.
Makkedah, too, Joshua captured and put to the sword at that time. He fulfilled the doom on the city, on its king, and on every person in it, leaving no survivors. Thus he did to the king of Makkedah what he had done to the king of Jericho.
Joshua then passed on with all Israel from Makkedah to Libnah, which he attacked.
Libnah also, with its king, the LORD delivered into the power of Israel. He put it to the sword with every person there, leaving no survivors. Thus he did to its king what he had done to the king of Jericho.
Joshua next passed on with all Israel from Libnah to Lachish, where they set up a camp during the attack. The LORD delivered Lachish into the power of Israel, so that on the second day Joshua captured it and put it to the sword with every person in it, just as he had done to Libnah.
At that time Horam, king of Gezer, came up to help Lachish, but Joshua defeated him and his people, leaving him no survivors.
From Lachish, Joshua passed on with all Israel to Eglon; encamping near it, they attacked it and captured it the same day, putting it to the sword. He fulfilled the doom that day on every person in it, just as he had done at Lachish.
From Eglon, Joshua went up with all Israel to Hebron, which they attacked and captured. They put it to the sword with its king, all its towns, and every person there, leaving no survivors, just as Joshua had done to Eglon. He fulfilled the doom on it and on every person there.
Then Joshua and all Israel turned back to Debir and attacked it, capturing it with its king and all its towns. They put them to the sword and fulfilled the doom on every person there, leaving no survivors. Thus was done to Debir and its king what had been done to Hebron, as well as to Libnah and its king.
Joshua conquered the entire country; the mountain regions, the Negeb, the foothills, and the mountain slopes, with all their kings. He left no survivors, but fulfilled the doom on all who lived there. (emphasis added).
Are you getting the picture yet?
Now I realize that all you see (i.e., all that your media has shown you) is that Israel is this peaceful democratic nation whose neighbors are all blood thirsty lunatics. You never see or read anything about the fact that Israel is actually a theocracy. If you happen to be non-Jewish in Israel, you don't have the same rights. You never read about Israel's invasion of its neighbors in 1956 or 1967 or the ambition among the radical ultra-right wing Orthodox Israeli rabbis to extend Israel's borders to its "biblical borders". Don't believe me? Go read the speech Ben-Gurion gave before the Knesset on the third day of the Suez War in 1956 when he pronounced that his real reasons for initiating that war was "the restoration of the kingdom of David and Solomon" to its biblical borders. Most of those radical rabbis believe that Southern Lebanon (aka "Galilee") is really part of "biblical" Israel. So, how safe would you feel living next door to someone who is proud of what their ancestors did under Joshua's leadership back in whoknowswhen BC and who also believe that your country was once "promised" to them?
As for the common mortal enemy stuff, I assume you are referring to militant Islam. As a Maronite, I think I know more about dealing with Islam than anyone currently posting here. Let me give you a quick history lesson:
The history of the Maronites has been a ceaseless struggle to preserve their Catholic faith and to maintain the greatest possible freedom within the political and religious circumstances of the times. The Maronite people have a strong emotional attachment to the mountainous regions of Lebanon. It was to these mountains that they fled in the seventh and eighth centuries to escape violent religious persecutions. It was in these mountains that they were able to remain virtually independent of the various powers that sought to control the region. The Maronite Patriarch was the only Christian religious leader who did not require a decree from the Sultan to validate his election as head of a Church within the Ottoman Empire.
In the seventh century, my ancestors fought the Muslims so fiercely that their caliphs were forced to pay us the jizya. They paid it in tribute in exchange for our good behavior. We left each other alone after that. Minding one's own business is an excellent way to live in peace. I'm hoping we Americans can re-learn to live that way soon. It's the essence behind George Washington and John Adams' warnings about staying out of "foreign wars".
I'll grant you that Israel has some seriously crazy enemies among Iran and Hezbollah. But I fail to see how pissing off the Lebanese helps the situation any. The moderate Israelis know this, God bless them. Maronites have traditionally been allies with Israel. I still am. But I will not turn a blind eye to radicalism and violence and racism whether it comes from the Sons of Allah or the Sons of Abraham. The way to peace is not behind a tank!
Ah, no it's not. It's a theocracy. If you are non-Jewish, you do not have the same rights in Israel. It is also a nation in arms, because it is surrounded by enemies who wish to destroy it.
Yeah, any minute now it's going to be wiped into the sea. Nevermide the fact that Israel has kicked its neighbors' asses in EVERY fight it has EVER had with them. And I mean kicked them but good. In 1967, they destroyed the armies of Egypt, Syria, Iraq, and Jordan IN SIX DAYS!!!!
They are not going to be driven into the sea by anyone. They are armed to the teeth with US missiles and tanks and F16s and Apache helicopters. They can go on being a bully to anyone in the region who pisses them off. And everyone in the region knows it and is afraid of them. Everyone except Syria and Iran because they know that Israel won't invade their countries because they're not bordering them. Why do you think the Jordanians and the Egyptians were willing to sign peace agreements with Israel? It wasn't because they suddenly fell in love with them. It was a matter of self preservation. If you are truly a friend to Israel, you would not be encourging their paranoia that everyone is going to drive them into the sea unless the Israelis kill them first. That's no way to live.
Would the author like to live in Syria or even in Egypt?
No, and I wouldn't want to live in Canada either. What the hell is your point.
Very good point!
I'll grant you that Israel has some seriously crazy enemies among Iran and Hezbollah. But I fail to see how pissing off the Lebanese helps the situation any. The moderate Israelis know this, God bless them. Maronites have traditionally been allies with Israel. I still am. But I will not turn a blind eye to radicalism and violence and racism whether it comes from the Sons of Allah or the Sons of Abraham. The way to peace is not behind a tank!
God bless you! You are truly writing with the "warrior maiden" spirit of Eowyn! ;-)
Child, where did you read that? It might interest you to know that Lebanon was the model for the new nationalism of the post-World War I world. In fact, Lebanon was the first country in the region to create a national flag and anthem. We have never questioned our identity. Ever. That goes for Lebanese Muslims and Christians and Druze. One of the great patriotic figures in Lebanese history is Fakhr-al-din II. He was the emir of Lebanon in the days of the Ottoman Empire. He was a Druze, but after the death of his father at age twelve, his mother sent him to Kesrouan to be raised by a Maronite family, the Al-Kazins. When Fakhr was entrusted with a fief in the Shouf, he worked to realize his childhood dream, for fifty years 1585-1635 he fought for Lebanese independence and in so doing created Greater Lebanon.
On the domestic level Fakhr had three objectives: security, prosperity, and unity. His army consisted of 40,000 disciplined and well trained professional. New garrison stations were built and artillery imported from Europe. A Maronite Khazim commanded his army and another served as his chief counsellor. In 1611 he sent a Maronite bishop on a confidential mission to the Pope and the grand duke of Tuscany. A secret treaty was signed between Lebanon and Florence.In 1613 the Porte moved against Fakhr with 50,000 troops and a sixty galley fleet. Prudence dictated flight on the part of Fakhr and so he escaped on a French vessel to find a warm welcome at the court of the Medicis. Cosmo II of Tuscany received his Lebanese ally in style. Fakhr wrote to his people:
Having set before our eyes a goal toward which shall unswervingly move - the goal being full independence of ouur country and its complete sovereignty - we are resolved that no promise of rewward or threat of punishment shall in the least dissuade us.'
In 1618 Fakhr returned to Lebanon to much rejoicing but found that in his absence his seat at Dier al Qamar had been assaulted by his rival Yusuf Sayfa.Fakhr swore vengeance and lost no time in implementing his oath. His men captured Crac des Chevaliers, demolished the Sayfa palaces in Akkar and Tripoli and removed their stones so as to rebuild Dier al Qamar. Next came the turn of the pasha of Damascus, in the battle of Anjar, 4000 Lebanese captured the pasha and cut down 12,000 of his men. Lebanon, Syria and Palestine was now under the rule Fakhr-al-din II. Nothing was left for Fakhr, in the words of a biographer of his time, but to declare himself sultan. Fakhr-al-din II preferred the title of 'Emir of Mount Lebanon, Sidon, and Galilee'.
As lord of Greater Lebanon he now felt free to proceed with his economic programme which was to bring great benefits to his people. His Christian leanings and European dealing again angered the Porte who in 1633 launched a land and sea offensive against Fakhr. 80,0000 troops from Syria and Egypt and a 22 galley fleet converged on Lebanon. Facing them was a force of 25,000 Maronite and Druze. After initial victories Fakhr-al-din II was captured and sent to Constantinople were on 13th April 1635 he along with three of his sons were executed.
His story was immortalized in an opera written by the famous Lebanese composers Mansour and Assy Rahbani (aka "the Rahbani Brothers" -- sort of the George and Ira Gershwin of Lebanon). The lead female role was played by the great Lebanese diva Fairuz in 1967 at the Baalbeck International Festival, which was the annual highlight of every Lebanese summer -- the oldest and most prestigious music festival in the middle east, held in the summertime in the ruins of the great Roman temple to Jupiter. It has been continued and each year since it started again has been better than the last. This year's festival was going to be the best they'd seen since before the war years. But unfortunately, it had to be canceled this year for obvious reasons.
I share all of this with you so that you might have a better understanding of the culture and the people of Lebanon. And also so that you might see that Lebanon really is a multi-ethnic and religious country regardless of what ignorant posters might say to help themselves sleep better at night.
Theocracy is not the right term, else Israel would be ruled by rabbis. It's a nation-state with a democratric form of government. They remind me of the ancient Athenians with every citizen a soldier/sailor.
I am talking about the Muslims, dear one. Yes, I know that the history is complex, that even the crusader states were not simply Christian entities, that it is simplistic to talk about such things as Sunni/Shiite, given the complex sectarian of that religion. The Ottoman Empire was the first of the Great European Powers, which drew heavily from western military technology. It was however, fundamentally opposed to the genius of Europe, because that is Christian, and the special kind of Christianity that continued the agenda of the Greco-Roman culture. It was a successor to the old eastern Empires, and it seems there is as much of Persia in Islam as there is Arab. So I do not hestitate to see Lepanto as a parallel to Salamis. Maybe Vienna is a better parallel because it demonstrtaed the superiority of western military power, now that France had led the way and reconstructed the Roman legions. So Hungary was lost and the erosion began. Catherine the Great ripped away the Crimea and began the Russian advance into Muslim lands. the British took India from the Moguls. Napoleon saw himself (or so we can imagine) as the new Alexander, or at least as the avenger of the last Constantine. Anyway he wanted a land empire that reached from England to India. It took the Ottoman empire a century to crack, but when it did there were the pieces which have since 1919 been trying to rearrange themelves into a new pattern.
That's why this whole situation was so terribly sad. Last years Cedar Revolution was a perfect example of how Muslims and Christians could co-exist and live in freedom. Dressed in red and white, these Lebanese Christians, Muslims, and Druze, chanted, "Freedom, Liberty, Sovereignty" and held aloft crosses in one hand and copies of the Koran in the other to show the world that they are united across sectarian boundaries. They were saying loud and clear that they had hear the message that John Paul II told them during his historic visit in 1997. He told them that they can live in peace if they forgive one another and see each other as true human beings.
You can't imagine how much it meant to the Lebanese (all Lebanese regardless of religion) that John Paul II came to Lebanon. He made a point to speaking to all of the religious groups and the ceremonies were attending by everyone.
If you want to see true religious tolerance, look at the way the Maronite Patriarch is regarded not only among the Maronites but among all the other Lebanese faiths. He is genuinely regarded as a man of wisdom. He is respected by everyone, which is why George Bush invited him to the White House during the Cedar Revolution. Bush was essentially saying that he wasn't sure which Lebanese politicians were for real and which were in the pay of Syria, but he could be certain that the Patriarch was the real deal voice of the freedom-loving Lebanese.
The one heartening thing throughout all of this is that the Lebanese are not becoming sectarian again. Hezbollah was hoping that that would happen, which is why they started branching out into the Christian neighborhoods -- hoping to get the Christians made and the Shia. Instead the Christians took in Shia refugee families. My other worry was that this would make Lebanese rally around Hezbollah because seeing IDF missiles raining down on your home and family has the effect of making one forget that Hezbollah started this by making war with Israel. It would have been best if Israel enacted a cease-fire in that first week right after the Arab world condemned Hezbollah. That would have been perfect! Because everyone was freshly pissed off at Hezbollah for disrupting the stability of the region. But the longer it continued, and the more the world saw the Lebanese people bearing the brunt of the devastation, the world lost sight of Hezbollah's ultimate culpability. I think Israel made a huge mistake, and they accomplished nothing -- other than legitimizing Hezbollah, which is now being invited to the negotiating table. That's why in the end behaving like a bully is not only immoral, it's also politically stupid. Friends don't let friends destroy themselves. If we're really Israel's friend, then we wouldn't have fed-ex'd them more bombs.
Yeah. It's charming if you're Jewish. It sucks if you're not. I guess it depends on your definition of "democracy." If you mean democracy for Jewish people, then yes, Israel is a democracy.
I haven't been on FR for about a year, but you're name sounds vaguely familiar, and I think you were an historically illiterate dope back then as well. Just for the novelty of it you might want to try using your brain. You know, your brain. It's that round thing you have shoved up your ass.
But according to Haim Ramon, a person becomes a terrorist by living in the same village as one. Do you have any idea how demented it is to live your life believing that everyone is out to get you and so you must kill them before they kill you? Do you realize that all this does is dehumanize your enemy and lead to perpetual war? You're on the Catholic forum, are you Catholic or Christian? Do you think this is the gospel message? Do you believe that people are children of God and are capable of redemption? Or are they just mindless vermin that must be exterminated? Do you think that this endless tit for tat will lead to anything other endless hatred and violence? Do you realize that the children in Lebanon who lost their parents are scarred for life? Do you realize that the mothers and wives of those IDF soldiers are now left with nothing of their loved ones but a damn photograph? Do you think this carnage made anyone more safe? It did nothing. NOTHING. Nothing was gained. But many people paid for it with their lives. It didn't stop Hezbollah. It gave them more power!
When, O Lord, will we learn?!
The Israelis dropped leaflets "warning" people that they were going to bomb the south. They didn't specify exactly where. They just sent a general warning to get the hell out. And then they proceeded to bomb the roads and the bridges and blockaded the harbor. And don't you dare try to deny it, sweetheart. I know it for a fact. We live in the age of the internet. We know things instantly now.
Hezbollah has been "warning" Israel incessantly that they're going to bomb the hell out of them. They haven't exactly been reticent about it. They've announced it to anyone who would listen. They're even telling them which cities they're aiming for, but unlike the Israelis, they don't have precision guided missiles.
So from a civilian's point of view and in reality--not in your fairy tale black & white good guy vs. bad guy middle east-- how exactly is the Israeli style of "warnings" more justifiable than the style favored by that band of Hezbollah lunatics and fanatics? It's like the 15 minute warning telephoned to the King David Hotel before Jewish terrorists--oops, I mean "freedom fighters"-- blew up innocent civilians in 1948. It allows the Israelis to pretend that they're being righteous when in reality they're taking Hezbollah's bait and making war on civilians too.
Uh oh. *RED ALERT*. *RED ALERT*. I think I just set off the moral equivalence alarm. I can hear the sirens now. Someone somewhere is screaming at their computer screen, "Are you saying Israel is no better than Hezbollah?!!" Somebody get Dershowitz! Heaven forbid anyone EVER question the State of Israel's moral judgment. I must secretly be a Neo-Nazi living in Idaho. Or maybe I'm an apparatchik teaching at Berkeley. I'm so confused... One minute I'm a Reagan loving conservative. And the next I'm president of the Noam Chomsky fan club.
Too bad the Israelis haven't heeded Nietzsche's warning: "If a man fights dragons for too long, he becomes like them."
Oookay... So. Uh, does that mean that we should all act according to the lowest common denominator so that we don't "discriminate" against anyone by expecting them to behave better than savages?
I'm not sure you really thought that one through yet, kiddo. You might want to sit down and think on that some more.
Isn't it interesting how the sobrans, the buchanans, the rockwells, the flemings always blame israel first.
Of the worlds population, how many are Jews? Dunno, off the top of my head, I'd say prolly less than 1%.
But 100% of the time THEY are responsible for every war, stock market crash,revolution etc etc.
But, of course, it isn't antisemitism. Oh no....
*Their "points" are Israel controls America.
And showing me a map means nothing. I could show you a map of north America and scream about how Canada and Greenland are going to wipe us off the map. But I won't because I'm a grown up.
*No, you are making a childish "arguement. America is not surrounded by enemies sworn to destroy it and actively terrorising it. Grow-up, You know, maybe if, since 1948, Canada and Greenland had been attacking America, you'd have a more rational idea of the threat Israel faces* Your ideas about the history of Palestine are warmed-over palistinian-polemics. YES, israel desires peace. Take a look at the map, sister. The Palistinina people can have s stae carved out for them in Jordan, or syria, or, you name it. WHY muct Israel give up land for "peace?' EVERY time they have made such an agreement it has been followed by MORE terrorism against them. You desire Israel commit suicide. Israel is in its current state of responding to terrorism precisely because liberals, like yourself, think giving land to your mortal enemies secures peace. It is seen as weakness by Israel's enemies. And, don't think for a second that Islam and coming for you and yours right here in America.
'Cause it's as nutty and racist as the stuff being preached by the Imams. And they can use the bible to justify their indiscriminate behavior towards non-Jews in the region just like the Imams can use the koran to incite violence against Jews and Christians.
*Post ONE, just ONE statement by an Orthodox Rabbi telling his congregation to kill innocent Muslims or Arabs. Post ONE, just ONE line from Holy Writ teaching Muslims or Arabs are subhuman. I find your "ideas" about an equivalence between Rabbis and Immans to be, at best, insane.
Are you getting the picture yet?
*Yeah. I am getting a VERY clear picture you have no clue what you are talking about. God ordered His chosen people to attack and destroy a specific peole in a specific part of the world during a specific period of time. The Koran's imprecations and edicts are written against all christians and jews for all time in all lands. And, of course, there is the not inconsequential matter that the Bible IS the word of God and the Koran ain't
It's the essence behind George Washington and John Adams' warnings about staying out of "foreign wars".
*One can't "stay out of a war" once one is attacked. Islam, not "radical" Islam, has been at war against Christianity and Judaism since the 7th century. Its most recent revival began at the Munich Olympics in 1972. The West is ALWAYS slow to respond. It was 450 years, FOUR HUNDRED AND FIFTY YEARS before a Crusade was called to oppose those bastards. Now that America is, under Bush, BEGINNING to respond after THREE DAMN DECADES of attacks, we are being warned not to get into foreign wars. Yeah, I guess Washington was right...of course, when he was warning about "foreign entanglements," he was just enjoying the liberating fruits of foreign assistance in men and material from the foreign Countries of France and Spain without which we would not have gained Independence. Do you have any idea just how much Spain contributed to our Independence?
The way to peace is not behind a tank!
*It sure as hell is, sister. Were it not for Catholics killing the Muslims in Tours, Lepanto, Vienna etc etc etc, you'd be wearing a Burqa, not driving, getting beaten by your hussband and praying on a mat.
Peace comes AFTER we kill the enemy. Peace does NOT result from men scribbling on paper.
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