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The Ouija Board: A Game, or a gamble?
Envoy Magazine ^ | By Father Robert Allgaier

Posted on 06/17/2006 4:15:31 PM PDT by NYer

ne day, after speaking to a group of high school students about the dangers of dabbling with occultic activities, such as Ouija boards, I asked if they had any questions or comments. In a subdued voice — and without a hint of sarcasm or levity — one boy raised his hand and said, “I had something . . . happen . . . to my friend and me when we used a Ouija board.” The room of teenagers was hushed as he explained what happened. They had used the board “just for fun” and didn’t expect anything to happen. They were wrong.

he boys began asking silly questions, moving the pointer (called a “planchette” which looks like a small laundry iron) over letters on the board to form amusing answers. It wasn’t long, however, before the planchette began moving on its own, relating private facts about each of their lives: facts they’d never told anyone, not even each other. Soon it became apparent that they were in contact with someone or something they could not physically see. Frightened, they decided to stop, but not before asking one more question: “Who are you?”

The planchette, seemingly under its own power, zigged and zagged slowly across the board, moving from one letter to another, spelling out the word “B-E-E-L-Z-E-B-U-L.” Not recognizing this word, the boys wrote it down on a piece of paper and went immediately to another room to show it to the first boy’s older sister. As she stared at the paper, the color drained out of her face. She asked, “What are you doing?” He replied, “My friend and I were playing with a Ouija board.” She implored him, “Put it away and don’t ever use it again.” This girl recognized the name and feared for her brother’s safety. Three of the four gospels relate the story of the scribes who accused Jesus of invoking this archdemon from hell in order to perform His miracles. Many Scripture scholars believe it to be one of the names attributed to Satan himself. 

Unsettling though these accounts are, skeptics would caution us not to believe them too quickly. “Isn’t it possible,” the skeptic would argue, “that the boy simply made up the story to impress his friends?” 

Yes, it’s possible, but not all that likely. Years ago, before I began exploring Ouija boards and the spiritual world more closely, I might have been inclined to agree. Once I began to see how powerfully the spiritual world influences our material world, however, and began to hear more such stories, I became convinced that there’s more to Ouija boards and other forms of divination than meets the eye. 

If this were an isolated incident, it might be tempting to seek natural explanations for the boys’ experience. Unfortunately, stories like this are far too common among those who experiment with Ouija boards and other such “games.” Many young people realize this only after they’ve placed themselves and others in danger — spiritually, psychologically, even physically.

Allow me to explain what the Lord has to say about such activities, expose the dangers of divination and outline what steps to take if you know someone who has begun a journey down this dangerous path. 

Divination is any activity that seeks to obtain hidden knowledge or information from sources outside the material world: sources such as angels, demons, and deceased humans. (The word “occult” means hidden or secret.)

Divination differs from prayer in that it goes outside the natural ways God reveals His will to us. It seeks to take short cuts around God’s plan and obtain answers to our questions without going first to God or to the angels and saints who intercede for us. 

The practice of divination began in ancient times, but there are many popular methods still in use today. Some of the more prevalent forms include Ouija boards, spiritistic seances, palm reading, numerology, tarot card reading, fortune telling, psychic hotlines, tea leaf reading, crystal gazing, certain forms of witchcraft, magical incantations, sorcery and astrological horoscopes. Each of these activities seeks to acquire either information about the future, knowledge beyond a person’s natural abilities (clairvoyance) or power outside of God’s Providence.

God has already revealed everything we need to know about our present and our future through Divine Revelation and the Church; anything else He wants to tells us comes to us via prayer and spiritual discernment. In other words, God has already established safe channels for us to pursue when we seek answers to life’s questions. Divination, even if done in ignorance or for fun, is a way of stepping outside God’s plan for us. If this is done deliberately, with full knowledge and consent of the will, then the offender is guilty of grave sin. 

There are many passages in the Bible that specifically condemn or warn against engaging in divination. Although some of the particular forms of divination noted in Sacred Scripture are not as popular today as they were in ancient times, the principles behind God’s condemnation remain the same today as they did the day God spoke them. Repeatedly, the Lord warns His people not to imitate their pagan neighbors by divining. It can lead to the worship of nature and even demonic powers, and expose people to other grave dangers. 

Taking its cue from Sacred Scripture and the constant Tradition of the Church, the Catechism of the Catholic Church states the matter well: “All forms of divination are to be rejected: recourse to Satan or demons, conjuring up the dead or other practices falsely supposed to ‘unveil’ the future. Consulting horoscopes, astrology, palm reading, interpretation of omens and lots, the phenomena of clairvoyance, and recourse to mediums all conceal a desire for power over time, history, and, in the last analysis, other human beings, as well as a wish to conciliate hidden powers. They contradict the honor, respect and loving fear that we owe to God alone” (CCC 2116). 

Divination attacks the relationship of trust God wants to have with us. By divining, we place our trust not in Him, the Creator, but rather in created things that can have no life or even existence apart from Him. One of the most consistent messages that runs the length of salvation history, and resounds throughout the Bible, is that God deeply loves humanity; and we find comfort, fulfillment, and peace in Him alone (e.g., Psalm 62, Matt. 6:25-34).
People show a profound lack of trust in God by turning to the occult for answers to their most basic needs and deepest desires. This is precisely why divination is sinful. Sin is deliberately choosing something we know will harm our friendship with God. This means above all that God is first in our lives and that we trust Him especially in difficult situations and in important areas of our lives. Jesus instructs us not to worry about our future but to place ourselves in His care when He says, “Do not fear, only believe” (Mark 5:36). The temptation to turn to the occult for answers by consulting Ouija boards or other forms of divination should sound a spiritual alarm in us about where we are in our relationship with God and the place He has in our lives. 

God also forbids His beloved children to divine because He made us and knows well how dangerous it is for humans to enter the spiritual world apart from Him. Contacting spirits through methods other than prayer to God, the angels or the saints removes us from God’s protection and opens us up to the malicious influences of evil spirits. Without God, we are left completely unprepared for what can happen to us.

What exactly can happen? We can begin answering that by looking at the four types of pure spirit beings who we know inhabit the spiritual world: God, angels, disembodied human souls and demons. (Mortal human beings are also, by nature, “spiritual beings” who have physical bodies, but we’re speaking here just about those who are pure spirits.)

Let’s consider each of these categories.

God: Since God has forbidden us to divine, and commands us to seek Him only through the means He has established for this purpose (e.g., Divine Revelation, His Church, prayer, the beauty of nature, etc.), He would not contradict His own moral law by using divination to communicate with us. 
Angels: The only desire a holy angel ever has is to serve and obey God. Although angels are able to communicate with humans by means of divination, the holy angels would never disobey God’s will by doing so. God has forbidden humans to divine. Therefore, holy angels would never communicate with us that way. If the angels ever do speak directly to humans, it is always at God’s command and for a specific purpose (cf. Luke 1:26-38).

Deceased humans: Couldn’t a departed human soul use divination in an attempt to contact the living? No. Our faith teaches us that this cannot be. Once a soul leaves its body, it experiences its particular judgment then goes to one of three places: heaven, hell or purgatory. Part of being a physical and spiritual creature means that we use our physical bodies to communicate with other physical creatures on earth. Humans have no natural power, either in this life or in the next, to communicate with the material world apart from their bodies. Any such ability would have to come from either a preternatural source (an angel or a demon) or a supernatural source (God Himself). Neither God nor the angels would use their powers in the context of divination for reasons explained above. Evil spirits have no control over souls in heaven or purgatory, and souls in hell are cut off from the material world by merit of their eternal separation from God. In other words, since a soul remains in hell forever, it cannot leave, even spiritually, once it has entered. Therefore, our only conclusion can be that if a deceased soul ever should appear to a living person on earth (this seems to have happened to some of the saints), then it is at God’s initiative and for a specific purpose (a request for prayers, for instance). No type of divination fits this scenario.

Demons: These creatures have both the power and the motive to answer human attempts to communicate with the spiritual world through divination. Demons are spiritual creatures (angels) who maliciously rejected God’s loving offer of eternal life and now dwell in eternal separation from Him in hell. The demons’ hatred of God is so intense that it is unlikely the human mind can even conceive of it. Demons were once beautiful and brilliant angels made by God to know Him, love Him and serve Him eternally in Heaven. Does this sound familiar? It should, because God made us for the same purpose. Since they have rejected God’s loving offer and have completely separated themselves from God — the only source of true love — demons are incapable of either receiving or giving love. Demons burn with a cold and intense hatred of God and everything that reflects His love and Presence. Since humans are made in God’s very image and likeness, there are no other creatures in the material universe that remind demons more vividly of God. Hence, next to God and the holy angels, humans are the beings most hated by demons.

Once we realize this, it becomes much easier to see why evil spirits want to communicate with humans through divination and encourage its use. One particularly clever way of doing so is to market Ouija boards and other forms of divination as harmless games to be used for entertainment and enjoyment.
Evil spirits stand to benefit greatly whenever humans divine. They know that once a person begins to divine, a spiritual door or portal opens between the material world and the spiritual world. (When talking about spiritual, intangible realities, it is useful oftentimes to employ images or analogies. The “portal” is used here analogously; cf. Eph. 6:10-17.) Without divination, demons normally must content themselves to work in the world indirectly, mostly by enticing humans to sin. The more humans sin, the more evil that is brought into the world, the more influence evil spirits have.

But even in a world thoroughly obsessed with sin, demons still must work indirectly. That all changes when the portal between the material world and the spiritual world is opened. The most common way this happens is through divination. Once that door is opened and a demon “gets a foot (cloven hoof) inside,” resealing that portal can be remarkably difficult. In addition, the more often a person divines, the more times the door is opened. This increases opportunities for demons to work directly and can also increase the frequency and intensity of a demon’s activity. 

People divine for a number of reasons. The first type of person uses divination to contact what he or she believes to be spirits of deceased people or other types of spiritual beings. Rarely do these people believe they are in danger of contacting evil spirits, but some experienced diviners acknowledge certain risks.

Remember The Exorcist? It’s a highly sensationalized and less-than-accurate movie portrayal of an exorcism that occurred in the 1940s. There is, however, an important part of the story that is related correctly. In the actual case, a twelve-year-old boy was introduced to the Ouija board by his aunt, who was a witch. Some time after teaching her nephew how to use the board, she died, and the boy tried to contact her spirit via the Ouija board. Instead of contacting his dead aunt, he unwittingly contacted demons who disguised themselves as friendly spirits. St. Paul warns us that “even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light” (2 Cor. 11:14). In another place, Jesus tells us that the devil “has nothing to do with the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks according to his own nature, for he is a liar and the father of lies” (John 8:44). Believing that these beings were his friends, the boy continued to contact them by using the Ouija board. Eventually, he became possessed by multiple demons. A formal exorcism finally freed him of what must be the most spiritually terrifying experience a human being can endure on earth. 

There are people, however, who really do see Ouija boards and other forms of divination as mere “games.” Some tell me, “I used a Ouija board and nothing happened to me!” Whenever someone says this, I ask them a simple question: “How do you know?” We’ve already stated that these spirits are liars, and we know that they are vastly more intelligent than even the most brilliant humans. We know they are invisible and can be directly revealed to us only through some supernatural revelation by God. Under the right circumstances, they could choose to reveal themselves, but would only do so if they determined that would do more harm and damage than keeping themselves invisible — and to the untrained, undetectable. I say this not to frighten people who have innocently divined in the past. Rather, it is a warning to those who might be tempted to treat divination as a game. Just because the diviner has not seen sensational signs of demonic involvement does not mean that all is well. 


If you or someone you know has been involved in divination, or has been in contact with an evil spirit, what should you do?

People are often scared that they may have allowed unwelcome demonic visitors into their lives by dabbling with practices outlined above. What should people do if they have either innocently or intentionally contacted demons by divining? What if no contact has been indicated even though divination has occurred?

If you have never engaged in any of these kinds of activities, thank God. Do not experiment with them, even for fun or out of curiosity — not even once. Remember that you do not have to believe in evil spirits for them to seriously harm you. If a child touches a hot stove the pain is surely felt, regardless of what the child knew or believed beforehand.

When I talk to teens about Ouija boards and other kinds of divination, I often find a fair number who have tried it at least once. Among these I also find those who have dabbled in these practices more often. “What should I do?” they ask. Here are several practical suggestions:

  1. Don’t assume that you haven’t contacted the spiritual world just because there’s no tangible evidence of activity. Demons will work quietly as long as it’s to their advantage. If people aren’t aware of a demon’s presence, it can work much more easily.

  2. Stop all divination immediately and get any partners or friends with whom you’ve done these things to stop, too. The sooner the divination ceases, the less potential for harm to all involved and the sooner any damage that has occurred can be repaired.

  3. If you knew that such activity was forbidden by the Church but you did it anyway, go to the sacrament of Penance very soon. Make a good confession, telling Jesus through the priest what you did and resolving with the help of His grace never to do it again.

  4. Receive the Eucharist. Holy Communion is the sacramental presence of Jesus — His Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity. After going to Confession, receive the Eucharist reverently. Satan both hates and is terrified of Christ, especially in the Eucharist. 

Once someone chooses to cooperate with God’s grace and stops divining, Satan will be furious and may counterattack in several ways. He’ll probably tempt the person to start divining again. He may use the imagination and play on fears, or he may use one’s peers and associates to exert subtle pressure to take up the bad habit again. 

Another tactic he may use is discouragement. The person may for a time find himself unusually discouraged and perhaps even depressed for no identifiable reason. Plans may suddenly fall through without adequate explanations. Things and activities he once enjoyed are no longer exciting, and things he knows are bad and harmful may begin to appear more attractive. He may experience an unusual sense of confusion and doubt about issues in his life, often associated with worries about whether he should have stopped divining.

A demon may attempt to use any method available to him to entice or scare a former dabbler into resuming divining activities. And in a manner worthy of diabolical genius, opposite tactics may be used at different times, depending on the circumstances in one’s life. Beware of what may happen, because forewarned is forearmed. 

The most important thing to remember, however, is that once you turn to the Lord in sincerity, it becomes His battle. If you arm yourself properly, you have absolutely nothing to fear! If you’ve experienced preternatural events, call a priest immediately and thoroughly explain the phenomena. He will be in the best position to assess the situation and offer you advice and resources in your area. It would also be helpful to enlist the corroboration of any witnesses to these events. Depending on the circumstances, a prayer for deliverance may be warranted.

Some people are involved with divination for a long time before they recognize the dangers. As long as a person is alive, it’s never too late. Christ is always ready to redeem us from our sins and the darkness with which we envelop ourselves through our choices. His power working in His Church can do immeasurably more than we can ask or imagine (cf. Eph. 3:21). Through centuries of spiritual warfare, the Church has gained a great deal of experience in dealing with evil. These suggestions come from the rich treasury of the Church’s wisdom. 

One of the great treasures we have as Catholics is a visible Church that continues Jesus’ mission of teaching, preaching, healing and sanctifying His people. We benefit not only from the Church’s two thousand years of experience in proclaiming the gospel and fighting evil; we benefit as well from the power that Christ entrusted to His Church. To the extent that we are in communion with the Church, we gain access to the tools and weapons Christ desires to give us as we battle evil in our communities and in ourselves. 

Prayerfully reflecting on God’s warnings both in Scripture and through His Church, we can see that all forms of divination not only are seriously sinful, but also seriously dangerous. (Scriptural passages that specifically condemn or denigrate divination and related occultic activities include Lev. 19:26, 31; 20:6, 27; 1 Sam. 15:23; 2 Kings 17:17; 21:6; 2 Chron. 33:6; Is. 8:19-20; Jer. 14:14; 27:9-10; 29:8-9; Ezek. 12:24; and Gal. 5:19-21. Cf. Deut. 18:10; Jer. 29:8.)

Our loving Father in heaven warns us of these dangers for our protection and well-being, both spiritual and physical. Let us pray that those who, unaware of the dangers, are involved with divination will soon realize that this “mere game” can be the gravest risk and the greatest gamble of their lives.


TOPICS: Activism; Apologetics; Catholic; Charismatic Christian; Evangelical Christian; General Discusssion; Judaism; Mainline Protestant; Ministry/Outreach; Moral Issues; Orthodox Christian; Prayer
KEYWORDS: hocuspocus; lindablair; occult; ouija; ouijaboard; superstitions; theexorcist
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To: NYer
Throughout the ages, the Ouija Board has held its place as an 'innocent' game ...

It was invented in 1890. I know that seems like, really ages ago, but it's not.

81 posted on 06/18/2006 7:53:05 PM PDT by Gumlegs
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To: Frank Sheed
However, just ask them if they've taken "Pascal's wager." It is in their mathematical best interests to do so by simple probability.

Errr... only with a flawed analysis and/or at least one invalid assumption. You can find discussions of the fundamental flaws in Pascal's Wager all over the net. Some are very simple (e.g. pointing out the invalid assumption required for it to work) while others are mathematically more thorough (e.g. a full-blown expected utility calculus using cost basis). It is essentially an economic argument.

In any case, Pascal got it wrong -- your mathematical best interest is in fact the exact opposite. It surprises me that people still use Pascal's Wager when it has been used as a canonical example of several types of invalid logic and flawed reasoning for ages, precisely because it is so well known and seductively specious. I blame the public schools...

82 posted on 06/18/2006 7:53:58 PM PDT by tortoise
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To: tortoise

You'd think by now a Ouija board somewhere would have pointed it out.


83 posted on 06/18/2006 7:58:35 PM PDT by Gumlegs
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To: discostu

Thank you for sharing your opinion with me as I have shared mine. I'm glad you are so confident about this silly piece of plastic. Please, go buy it for your children and grandchildren if you have any. Parker Brothers loves your money.

I'll say it again. I'm not getting it for my children. There are so many wonderful games, books, ideas, etc. to explore about this wonderful world God gave us. I'll not let them waste their time on this particular game. There's enough evil in the world trying to get at my kids. I'm not going to give it a boost.


84 posted on 06/18/2006 8:10:30 PM PDT by samiam1972 (Live simply so that others may simply live!)
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To: NYer

Good post and warning for others to heed. Science sees this field as "time travel."

If one has ever been in the spiritual world for whatever various reasons, near death, resuscitation, levitation, etc.; it's very difficult to distinguish which spirit one is dealing with. What one may present itself as, could very well be a disguise. It's one of those mysteries like the Malachy Prophecies when he levitated out of body! Ya just never know for certain.


85 posted on 06/18/2006 9:27:30 PM PDT by CaptObe (satan's Dream Battle - Christianity vs. Islam)
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To: tortoise
In any case, Pascal got it wrong

No he didn't. He got it exactly right.

86 posted on 06/18/2006 9:30:51 PM PDT by JCEccles
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To: NYer
Hillary plays all the time and she seems OK.


87 posted on 06/18/2006 9:33:46 PM PDT by A CA Guy (God Bless America, God bless and keep safe our fighting men and women.)
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To: JCEccles
No he didn't. He got it exactly right.

Right about what?

88 posted on 06/18/2006 9:56:57 PM PDT by tortoise
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To: NYer

Interesting story but I can't figure out what
EOT stands for.


89 posted on 06/18/2006 10:00:23 PM PDT by Ditter
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To: samiam1972

I've never bought a Ouija board, I prefer games where people can win, if I feel like getting scared for entertainment I put on a Hitchcock movie. But I don't believe Parker Brothers has any magical powers.

I don't care what you do or don't get for your kids, I'm simply pointing out that there is absolutely nothing out of the ordinary in a simple piece of pressboard and a dorky looking chunk of plastic. The exact same equipment goes into ouija boards as goes into Monopoly, Risk, Sorry and dozens of other board games of varying levels of entertainment.

Playing with a ouija board does not give evil a boost, it can't, it's just a stupid boring pointless idiotic game, there isn't enough interesting stuff in a ouija board to contain the slightest hint of evil. And it's exactly tyhat kind of silly fear mongering that causes the stupid game to sell in the first place. People play with the ouija because people like YOU told them it's evil and they want to see, then they get themselves all hyped and create something "spooky", something that never actually happened they just interpreted the random noises and sensations in an ill lit room for maximum possible stupidity and then scared themselves. If people like you would just shut the hell up about ouija boards for 10 or 20 years the world would forget about the stupid things and nobody would buy them anymore. You make the market, you push the imaginary evil, the people who understand it's just a chunk of cardboard and a chunk of plastic have no interest in the thing.


90 posted on 06/18/2006 10:01:07 PM PDT by discostu (get on your feet and do the funky Alphonzo)
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To: NYer

This is nasty, dangerous stuff. And dabbling in it can cause trouble for other people. Four generations encompass 30 people. If any of the people in earlier generations participated in this kind of evil, it can negatively affect descendants...


91 posted on 06/18/2006 10:06:17 PM PDT by 185JHP ( "The thing thou purposest shall come to pass: And over all thy ways the light shall shine.")
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To: NYer

Scary!


92 posted on 06/18/2006 10:12:14 PM PDT by diamond6 (Everyone who is for abortion have been born. Ronald Reagan)
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To: NYer
Whenever I hold the planchette shaped like a little iron, it spells out, "Quit wasting your time playing this sucker 'game' when there's a whole basket of ironing waiting for you."

Leni

93 posted on 06/18/2006 10:29:06 PM PDT by MinuteGal (Mi casa es su casa. Mi pais es su pais. Mi dinero es su dinero. Mi..............)
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To: NYer; Zeroisanumber; Barnacle; marshmallow

I support Nyer’s points.

Although I can understand why people would make a rationalist critique of the ouija board, all that I can say, is that quite a number of people have told me of unexpected and unsettling experiences associated with the ouija board. These people were in my opinion worthy of belief. I have known enough people who are the types who make things up, and these individuals were different. Also, they didn’t know each other, came from different cultures, yet their experiences seemed rather similar.

I have not heard people complaining the same way about tea leaf reading, palm reading, or even tarot cards. I do not take a strong line on fortune telling – in Irish culture is a traditional pastime. But I do stress that those “blasted boards”, as one Australian termed them, are different.

In my own life, I became convinced that the superstitions around two things are justified – ouija boards are definitely odd – and secondly, I came to believe the stories which friends in the archaeology profession told me, about how uncanny happenings sometimes follow those who come into contact with certain ancient artifacts. It does not sound rational – but people very skeptical have come to reconsider these things, as a result of the experiences which I mentioned.


94 posted on 06/19/2006 3:34:11 AM PDT by BlackVeil
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To: NYer
Recognizing what was happening, I asked my friend's little sister to get her mom's Rosary Beads. We placed these on the planchette and watched in horror as it levitated and shot forward into the fireplace (which was not burning).

Thanks for the story and your post.

Scoffers abound, but all we can do is warn.

I refer skeptics to the reviews of the ouija board game at Amazon.

95 posted on 06/19/2006 4:43:57 AM PDT by Aquinasfan (When you find "Sola Scriptura" in the Bible, let me know)
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To: Barnacle
Eventually, they visited her home, whereupon, they learned that she was a full blown witch. I can't remember for sure, but I think she told them about her demon companion as well.

Lovely.

96 posted on 06/19/2006 4:50:07 AM PDT by Aquinasfan (When you find "Sola Scriptura" in the Bible, let me know)
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To: A CA Guy

LOL! Now that is a heck of a picture of Queen Jezebel!


97 posted on 06/19/2006 5:59:14 AM PDT by Convert from ECUSA (Mexico: America's Palestine)
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To: Ozone34

Read "Hostage to the Devil" and "Fear the Night".

One piece of advice. Don't read the latter in the middle of the New Mexico desert at night. Your imagination will run wild.


98 posted on 06/19/2006 6:11:00 AM PDT by redgolum ("God is dead" -- Nietzsche. "Nietzsche is dead" -- God.)
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To: Aquinasfan; samiam1972; Convert from ECUSA
I refer skeptics to the reviews

Never considered visiting Amazon.com, so thanks for the link. This review sent shivers down my spine .........

First off, a Ouija board is not a toy! I have not really used one seriously since around 1989. I can tell you that several absolutely unexplainable things happened of which I will not go into too much detail in this particular forum. While all of the things that happened were freaky, one in particular involved driving to a location that the board spelled out for myself and my girlfriend (at the time). We didn't know if the address actually existed but thought we'd go there since it wasn't too far away if it really did exist (this was before the days of the Internet when I could have looked it up on Yahoo or Mapquest). When we got there, we could not believe that the address was real, but neither of us was willing to get out of the car and knock on the door (looking back, I almost wish we had). When we got back to her place, the first thing the board spelled out was, "I saw you outside my window." This is not a joke. This happened and it is one of several incidents. My girlfriend got scared and didn't want to play anymore and I've not really touched the board since. I can't explain the things that happened. I only know that several unexplainable things occurred and that I am telling the truth. The unknown is fun and exciting, but it can also be scary and dangerous! Play at your own risk!

99 posted on 06/19/2006 7:24:05 AM PDT by NYer (Discover the beauty of the Eastern Catholic Churches - freepmail me for more information.)
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To: tortoise
I blame the public schools...

Never attended one...

100 posted on 06/19/2006 7:32:24 AM PDT by Frank Sheed (Tá brón orainn. Níl Spáinnis againn anseo.)
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