Bishops may alter the words of mass (Changes to be more faithful to Latin text)

Chicago Tribune ^ | June 15, 2006 | Margaret Ramirez

[NYer]

Words of worship that have been familiar for three decades in America's Roman Catholic churches could change if U.S. bishops meeting in Los Angeles this week approve a new English translation of prayers and blessings used to celebrate mass.

Perhaps the most noticeable revision would be heard after the priest says, "The Lord be with you." The response of the people would change from "and also with you" to "and with your spirit."

The proposed changes follow strict rules for liturgical translation set by the Vatican in 2001 under the late Pope John Paul II that are meant to be more faithful to the original Latin text of the Roman missal, the book that guides the mass. Though many of the changes are slight, they nonetheless alter parts of the mass that Catholics hold close to their hearts.

The profession of the faith known as the Nicene Creed, for example, would change at the beginning from "We believe" to "I believe." The line that says "one in being with the Father" would switch to "consubstantial with the Father." In addition, "He was born of the Virgin Mary" would become "by the Holy Spirit was incarnate of the Virgin Mary."

The new translation has inspired intense debate--dubbed "the liturgy wars" by some observers--among bishops over whether to approve, amend or reject it. The translation needs a two-thirds majority vote before it can go to Pope Benedict XVI for final approval.

Purists praise the new translation as a more dignified, literal reading of the Latin. Others criticize the new translation as needlessly archaic, arguing that the familiar, more pastoral text should remain in place.

[NYer]

Cardinal Francis George of Chicago was the U.S. representative to the International Committee on English in the Liturgy, the panel of bishops from 11 English-speaking countries that prepared the translation.

In addition to concerns about language, George said many bishops have expressed fear over disrupting the mass as leaders work to restore trust damaged by the sexual abuse scandal.

"Liturgy is what the church is all about, so no matter what the question is, liturgy inspires intense debate," George said in an interview.

"Everybody knows that this translation is far more faithful to the Latin," he said. "Whether or not it is a good example of the receiver language, English, is one consideration. Whether or not, no matter how good it is, is this the time to change anything, is another consideration. Those are the two arguments going back and forth as the bishops struggle with whether or not to pass this."

* * * * *

Showtime in LA

The Spring Meeting of the US Conference of Catholic Bishops begins at 9am Pacific time, noon Eastern.

Keep it here for live updates. Rocco Palmo at WITL blogspot will be posting throughout the day. Stay tuned!

[AnAmericanMother]

Wooooooooo Hoooooooooo!

I said it before, I'll say it again . . .

MAYBE the changes in wording will mean that we'll have to get rid of the Marty Haugen "Massive Cremation" . . .

< . . . pray pray pray pray . . . >

[AnAmericanMother]

They sure didn't worry about "whether this is the time to change anything" when they forced the post-VCII changes down everybody's throat!

[Convert from ECUSA]

The gentleman from Virginia salutes the right honourable lady from Georgia and says: Amen, right on, and preach it, sister!

[ConorMacNessa]

It's high time, IMO, to change to a more literal interpretation of the Latin text.

[AnAmericanMother]

The lady from Georgia salutes the right honorable gentleman from Virginia, and gives him her most humble and hearty thanks!

[ConorMacNessa]

With any luck we would be able to purge most of Haugen's stuff - but OCP seems to have a stranglehold on liturgical music in the U.S.

[ArrogantBustard]

Oh, NO!!! Not the "Mess of Destruction"!!!!

How could we possibly do without that? Where would we go? What would we do?

[ArrogantBustard]

"Strangle" is the right word. Most of their stuff is enough to gag a maggot.

[NYer]

MAYBE the changes in wording will mean that we'll have to get rid of the Marty Haugen "Massive Cremation" . . .

Just a reminder; the Catholic Church runs on Vatican time :-). It has taken 40 years to restore proper language to the liturgy, and that with some angst on the part of the bishops. Hope in restoring liturgical music might be pressing it a bit ;-)

[ArrogantBustard]

Oh, yes: "Vivat Jesus".

I was active in Council 2203 back in the 1990s.

[Tax-chick]

Can we have, "The Lord be with you!" "And with thy ghost!" ??

[theFIRMbss]

>The line that says "one in being with the Father" would switch to "consubstantial with the Father." In addition, "He was born of the Virgin Mary" would become "by the Holy Spirit was incarnate of the Virgin Mary."

Sounds silly to me.
None of this stuff's from Scripture.
Since it's all man-made

it might as well be
understandable by folks
who will say the words.

"Being with" is more
clear than is "consubstantial."
Catholics go backward . . .

[Antoninus]

In addition to concerns about language, George said many bishops have expressed fear over disrupting the mass as leaders work to restore trust damaged by the sexual abuse scandal.

Boy, is that counter-intuitive thinking or what? "We can't follow the Vatican directives on the Liturgy because people are already bent out of shape over our refusal to punish sex abusing priests."

Dear Bishops: The word is obedience. See to it.

[Antoninus]

Still waiting for the "Mass in Cheesy Haiku", eh?

[Carolina]

Priceless quote of the day:

"My big concern is people are going to feel like they're being jerked around. They finally got used to the English translation and now they have to get used to another translation," said Rev. Thomas Reese, a senior fellow at the Woodstock Theological Center at Georgetown University and a Jesuit priest.

"It’s going to cause chaos and real problems and the people who are going to be at the brunt end of it are the poor priests in the parishes who don’t need any more problems."

Waaaah! Waaaah!

[ConorMacNessa]

Vivat Jesus to you, Brother!

[AnAmericanMother]

. . . not around here . . . OCP is blessedly absent from our pews.

The parish uses The Liturgical Press's "mass guide" - Celebrating the Eucharist.

It's really not bad. Dated, all feast days noted and propers, prefaces, etc. for every day of the week. Has all the texts (I read along with the OT and Epistles, but always stand and listen to the Gospel.) There is some junky music of the Glory and Praise variety, but also a lot of decent hymns, heavy on the old German and Scandinavian variety. And the Psalms always give two alternative tones - the traditional Gregorian and a more modern version.

[B-Chan]

FYI: we already use these formulations in the Anglican Usage of the Roman Rite. Nice to see the rest of the English-speaking Catholics catching up!