Posted on 05/28/2006 5:31:47 AM PDT by NYer
"At a small Catholic church in Huntington Beach, the pressing moral question comes to this: Does kneeling at the wrong time during worship make you a sinner?"
Kneeling "is clearly rebellion, grave disobedience and mortal sin," Father Martin Tran, pastor at St. Mary's by the Sea, told his flock in a recent church bulletin. The Diocese of Orange backs Tran's anti-kneeling edict.
Though told by the pastor and the archdiocese to stand during certain parts of the liturgy, a third of the congregation still gets on its knees every Sunday.
"Kneeling is an act of adoration," said Judith M. Clark, 68, one of at least 55 parishioners who have received letters from church leaders urging them to get off their knees or quit St. Mary's and the Diocese of Orange. "You almost automatically kneel because you're so used to it. Now the priest says we should stand, but we all just ignore him."
The debate is being played out in at least a dozen parishes nationwide.
Since at least the 7th century, Catholics have been kneeling after the Agnus Dei, the point during Mass when the priest holds up the chalice and consecrated bread and says, "Behold the lamb of God." But four years ago, the Vatican revised its instructions, allowing bishops to decide at some points in the Mass whether their flocks should get on their knees. "The faithful kneel … unless the Diocesan Bishop determines otherwise," says Rome's book of instructions. Since then, some churches have been built without kneelers.
(Excerpt) Read more at latimes.com ...
Perhaps we need to get our feedback about kneeling after the Agnus Dei at Communion time to the bishops if they are going to be voting on this.
While disciplining Fr. Tran, the Vatican should also take out the trash known as Bishop Brown. The Vatican is cleaning out the anti-Catholic bishops in Texas by attrition but California needs more immediate attention than attrition.
When does Trautman turn 75???? Erie NEEDS a Catholic bishop.
An excellent suggestion!
Lets oblige the good bishop's penchant for inclusive language: it's Bishop Trautperson.
LOL
The thing I always want to ask enemies of the church like Tran is, "Why do you insist on *less* reverence for Our Lord?"
Ditto in my parish. Father prefers that we kneel during the Words of Institution but does not dissuade the Lebanese who follow the Eastern tradition of standing.
You missed the part where he said EASTERN rite Catholics, and "Penetential services during Holy Week," I guess. Here's the full quote:
"Uhhhh. While we're getting excited about kneeling in the western church, what about the eastern Catholic churches where kneeling generally isn't the tradition? (Except during certain penitential periods like the Great Fast). I prefer bowing. And kneeling without the full prostrations just loses some of it's reverence in my view.
Nothing in this paragraph refers to Roman Catholic worship. Roman Catholic (Latin rite) and Eastern-rite Catholics have different ways of worship, although all are united under the Holy Father.
"Down in adoration falling, lo, the Sacred Host we hail!"
I went to one of these no-kneeling churches when we lived in Wisconsin. I just got down on my knees anyway. During the children's weekday Mass, Fr. invited all the children to stand with him around the alter during the Eucharistic Prayers. I wouldn't let my kids go up there and we soon moved out of state. I couldn't wait to get out of there!
May today there be peace within. May you trust God that you are exactly where you are meant to be. May you not forget the infinite possibilities that are born of faith. May you use those gifts that you have received, and pass on the love that has been given to you....May you be content knowing you are a child of God....Let this presence settle into your bones, and allow your soul the freedom to sing, dance, praise and love. It is there for each and every one of us.--- St. Theresa's Prayer
This absolute ignorant arrogant statement leaves me speechless.
There, I fixed it.
He, and the rest of the Orange Diocese might as well give Christ the finger.
God Bless those 55, and others, who will not "stand" for their garbage.
it started long before that. Manyt liberal priests want us to worship like Protestants. The Fathers at the council urged changes in the liturgy so that we would be more like the Orthodox, and the Orthodox do stand (and bow). But liberal priests have Lutheran worship in mind.
That is better.
Thanks!
The expression used by Saint Luke to describe the kneeling of Christians (theis ta gonata) is unknown in classical Greek. We are dealing here with a specifically Christian word. With that remark, our reflections turn full circle to where they began. It may well be that kneeling is alien to modern culture -- insofar as it is a culture, for this culture has turned away from the faith and no longer knows the one before whom kneeling is the right, indeed the intrinsically necessary gesture. The man who learns to believe learns also to kneel, and a faith or a liturgy no longer familiar with kneeling would be sick at the core. Where it has been lost, kneeling must be rediscovered, so that, in our prayer, we remain in fellowship with the apostles and martyrs, in fellowship with the whole cosmos, indeed in union with Jesus Christ Himself.
[highlights added.]
"This absolute ignorant statement leaves me speechless.
How I'd love to square off with this insipid priest, and put this fraud in his place.
There is no theological basis for this drivel."
Clearly a man who should never have been considered for the priesthood in the first place.
I hope someone in Rome is taking note of this strange man.
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