Posted on 05/28/2006 5:31:47 AM PDT by NYer
This happened at my former parish as well - the priest forbade kneeling during the Consecration and after Communion. The entire parish stood but we ended up moving to the back pews and kneeling so as not to cause a problem. But you know there were church ladies who verbally corrected us (my children and me).
It is difficult... you want to be obedient to the priest but all the while 'every knee shall bend' drums through your head. I know that some think 'a kneeler' is trying to show off piety or stand out or make a statement, but this just isn't true - if anything, you try to be as unobtrusive as possible (we moved to the back). Eventually we just left the parish so as not to be disobedient to the priest.
Anyhow, God works in mysterious ways and the priest was transferred to be the chaplain of the only Indult Mass in our Archdiocese. He doesn't like the Latin, thinks we as Americans should separate from Rome (Rome doesn't understand us) and as you now know, he doesn't like kneeling. So the assignment must be great penance for him. When he left, the parish went back (on their own) to kneeling at the proper times.
If anything, the pastor and bishop look bad in this article.
Uhhhh. While we're getting excited about kneeling in the western church, what about the eastern Catholic churches where kneeling generally isn't the tradition? (Except during certain penitential periods like the Great Fast).
I prefer bowing. And kneeling without the full prostrations just loses some of it's reverence in my view.
First you monkey with the liturgy to the extent that it makes interior devotion and adoration much more difficult.
The next move is to actually prohibit exterior signs of devotion and adoration.
Ironically, I bet if you asked this priest if masturbation or sodomy were mortal sins, he would equivocate.
Tran needs to be taken to the Vatican WOODSHEED and then maybe thrown out!
Amen...Vatican II took us AWAY from our roots and made us like Protestants in many ways.
Full Protration??? Where in a Roman Catholic Church does that happen?? None that I have ever seen. Ridiculous.
When I moved to a Seattle suburb in the mid 90's, I was amazed to find no kneelers in the church. I moved on to another parish that was further away within a month.
The actions of this Bishop and Priest seem egregious.
With all due respect, Father, this stuff is already available in 25 and 50 lb. bags at the local garden supply store.
I beleive this is something of a discussion in Orthodox churches as well (where some western rite traditions such as kneeling have rubbed off).
From an Orthodox site on the issue:
"The canons concerning bows and kneelings now accepted by the Orthodox Church and set forth in the books of the divine services, and particularly in the Church Typicon, are observed in monasteries. But in general, Orthodox Christian laymen who have zeal are, of course, permitted to pray on their knees in church and to make full prostrations whenever they wish, excepting only those times when the Gospel, Epistle, Old Testament readings, six psalms and sermon are read. The Holy Church lovingly regards such people, and does not constrain their devout feelings. However, the exceptions with regard to Sundays and the days between Pascha and Pentecost apply generally to everyone. According to ancient tradition and a clear church law, kneeling must not be performed on these days. The brilliant solemnity of the events which the Church commemorates throughout the period of Pentecost and on Sundays precludes, in and of itself, any external manifestation of sorrow or lamentation over one's sins: for ever since Jesus Christ, "blotting out the handwriting of the ordinances that was against us, ... nailing it to His Cross; and having spoiled principalities and powers, He made a show of them openly, triumphing over them in it" (Col. 2:14-15)—ever since then "there is, therefore, no condemnation to them who are in Jesus Christ" (Rom. 8:1). For this reason, the practice was observed in the Church from the earliest times, beyond a doubt handed down by the apostles, whereby on all these days, in that they are consecrated to the commemoration of the glorious victory of Jesus Christ over sin and death, it was required to perform the public divine service brightly and with solemnity, and in particular without kneeling, which is a sign of repentant grief for one's sins. The second century writer Tertullian gives testimony concerning this practice: "On the Lord's Day (i.e. Sunday) we consider it improper to fast or to kneel; and we also enjoy this freedom from Pascha until Pentecost" (On the Crown, ch. 3). St. Peter of Alexandria (3rd cent.—cf. his Canon XV in the Rudder), and the Apostolic Constitutions (Book II, Ch. 59) also say the same thing."
http://www.orthodoxinfo.com/praxis/kneeling.aspx
But the church in question is part of the Western Church, and kneeling is a long-established tradition in the Latin Church.
Is Tertullian recognized in he western church?
"The last priest did Latin rites." Isn't that what it said? So this one is bound and determined to eradicate the yearning for holiness in this congregation. Terrible.
The following responses to questions were published in the November-December 2002 edition of Notitiae, the official publication of the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments. These responses represent the view of the Holy See on the questions of kneeling to receive Holy Communion and the right of Catholics to address concerns to the Holy See.
Note: These letters appeared in Adoremus Bulletin, December 2002 - January 2003
Congregation de Cultu Divino et Disciplina Sacramentorum
Prot. n. 1322/02/L
Rome, 1 July 2002
Your Excellency,
This Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments has recently received reports of members of the faithful in your Diocese being refused Holy Communion unless while standing to receive, as opposed to kneeling. The reports state that such a policy has been announced to parishioners. There were possible indications that such a phenomenon might be somewhat more widespread in the Diocese, but the Congregation is unable to verify whether such is the case. This Dicastery is confident that Your Excellency will be in a position to make a more reliable determination of the matter, and these complaints in any event provide an occasion for the Congregation to communicate the manner in which it habitually addresses this matter, with a request that you make this position known to any priests who may be in need of being thus informed.
The Congregation in fact is concerned at the number of similar complaints that it has received in recent months from various places, and considers any refusal of Holy Communion to a member of the faithful on the basis of his or her kneeling posture to be a grave violation of one of the most basic rights of the Christian faithful, namely that of being assisted by their Pastors by means of the Sacraments (Codex Iuris Canonici, canon 213). In view of the law that "sacred ministers may not deny the sacraments to those who opportunely ask for them, are properly disposed and are not prohibited by law from receiving them" (canon 843 ¶ 1), there should be no such refusal to any Catholic who presents himself for Holy Communion at Mass, except in cases presenting a danger of grave scandal to other believers arising out of the person's unrepented public sin or obstinate heresy or schism, publicly professed or declared. Even where the Congregation has approved of legislation denoting standing as the posture for Holy Communion, in accordance with the adaptations permitted to the Conferences of Bishops by the Institutio Generalis Missalis Romani n. 160, paragraph 2, it has done so with the stipulation that communicants who choose to kneel are not to be denied Holy Communion on these grounds.
In fact, as His Eminence, Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger has recently emphasized, the practice of kneeling for Holy Communion has in its favor a centuries-old tradition, and it is a particularly expressive sign of adoration, completely appropriate in light of the true, real and substantial presence of Our Lord Jesus Christ under the consecrated species.
Given the importance of this matter, the Congregation would request that Your Excellency inquire specifically whether this priest in fact has a regular practice of refusing Holy Communion to any member of the faithful in the circumstances described above and -- if the complaint is verified -- that you also firmly instruct him and any other priests who may have had such a practice to refrain from acting thus in the future. Priests should understand that the Congregation will regard future complaints of this nature with great seriousness, and if they are verified, it intends to seek disciplinary action consonant with the gravity of the pastoral abuse.
Thanking Your Excellency for your attention to this matter and relying on your kind collaboration in its regard,
Sincerely yours in Christ,
Jorge A. Cardinal Medina Estévez
Prefect
+Francesco Pio Tamburrino
Archbishop Secretary
I love that testimonial. Thank you!
Tertullian died a Montanist heretic, so he's not "St. Tertullian". But his writings, especially during his Catholic period, are certainly a window in the early 3rd C. practice and doctrine of the Church.
Tertullian's opinions don't have relevance here, though. It's current (Latin Rite) liturgical law in the US that the people are required to kneel during the anaphora (except in unusual circumstances which wouldn't apply in a parish church), and Rome has also stated that the custom of kneeling after receiving communion is "laudably retained".
**I would ask FR Catholics to pray for Fr. Tran, the Bp. Brown and the parishioners.**
An excelelent suggestion!
The Roman Catholic Diocese of Erie (so-called) has pronounced that congregants shall remain standing during the communion processional.
Too bad. I still kneel. "Pope Donnie" can command I do handstands if he wants, I will still kneel.
*************
Perhaps Father Tran might better serve God in some other capacity. He is no shepherd.
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