FOX'S BOOK OF MARTYRS, CHAPTER IV, Papal Persecutions

Christian Classics Ethereal Library ^ | John Fox

[Rytwyng]

Stuff like this makes the Tiber seem very cold indeed.

BTW, my direct male-line ancestor escaped the St. Bartholomew's Massacre and fled to Scotland.

[stuartcr]

Religion of peace?

[Theoden]

Apparently, we missed a few...

Do I really have to write /sarcasm?

[Nihil Obstat]

And it goes on even today!! I read a book about this albino monk assassin.

[Lion in Winter]

I had one of those too. Last name Lyon....

[Lion in Winter]

Well, they missed my ancestor... THANKS BE TO GOD!!

[vladimir998]

So posting a thread drawing on Foxe's notoriously biased Book of Martyrs is a response to a rather well balanced article written D.L.? How does that work exactly?

[Theoden]

My Catholic male-line ancestors were not apart of this, they were too busy dealing with the severe persecution they faced in their own country of Ireland, where they were forbidden to speak their native tongue of Gaelic, forbidden to go to their Catholic churches, forbidden from owning property or holding public office, forbidden from getting an education, being starved, and dealing with the usual thefts, rapes, and murder.

If this makes the Tiber seem cold, one can only wonder at how frigid the Thames river is!

[wmfights]

"The reformation of papistical error very early was projected in France; for in the third century a learned man, named Almericus, and six of his disciples, were ordered to be burnt at Paris for asserting that God was no otherwise present in the sacramental bread than in any other bread; that it was idolatry to build altars or shrines to saints and that it was ridiculous to offer incense to them."
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Putting someone to death for disagreeing about SCRIPTURE I would expect from muslims not from those that claim to be Christians.

[vladimir998]

Take, for instance, this little bit of nonsense: "The Albigenses were a people of the reformed religion, who inhabited the country of Albi."

Reformed religion?

THEY WERE NOT CHRISTIANS ! They were dualists. Dualists cannot be Christians. They scorned marriage, having children, and practiced a form of ritual murder/suicide called the "endura".

Does Foxe discuss any of that?

"They were condemned on the score of religion in the Council of Lateran, by order of Pope Alexander III."

More like they were condemned on the score of "anti-religion" since they preached a gospel of extinction and murder.

[Pyro7480]

for in the third century a learned man, named Almericus, and six of his disciples, were ordered to be burnt at Paris for asserting that God was no otherwise present in the sacramental bread than in any other bread; that it was idolatry to build altars or shrines to saints and that it was ridiculous to offer incense to them.

If Foxe had any knowledge of ancient history, he would have realized that the Roman empire was still persecuting Christians at this time, and the papacy had no power to execute someone.

[Theoden]

Are you referring to the albino monk assassin who leads the "special units" of the Knights of Columbus? My Pentecostal grandfather (Mom's Scandinavian family)believes they are the Popes army here in America and that they are the Vatican's enforcers. I read that they are currently preparing for a new inquisition.

[vladimir998]

Or how about this gem of "missing-the-point"?:

"In the year 1524, at a town in France, called Melden, one John Clark set up a bill on the church door, wherein he called the pope Antichrist."

Oh, you mean he was a delusional nut?

"For this offence he was repeatedly whipped, and then branded on the forehead."

Not by the Church he wasn't. By the state -- and maybe not even for a "religious crime" but for disturbing the peace.

"Going afterward to Mentz, in Lorraine, he demolished some images, for which he had his right hand and nose cut off, and his arms and breast torn with pincers."

So the state punished him horribly for vandalizing beloved religious art that was probably on public display in the local cathedral or church? And the problem is...? This was in 1524 right? Rick-burning got the death penalty in England and elsewhere why would we be surprised by this nut's punishment?

"He sustained these cruelties with amazing fortitude, and was even sufficiently cool to sing the One hundredth and fifteenth Psalm, which expressly forbids idolatry; after which he was thrown into the fire, and burnt to ashes."

Oh, in other words, he fell even further into his madness, lost all grip on reality and made such an annoyance that the state finally executed him?

The State? So how exactly does this respond to D.L.'s article?

[Tax-chick]

I read that they are currently preparing for a new inquisition.

Darn it, we missed the memo AGAIN! I'll bet my husband forgot to update our address with the Inquisition when we moved.

[wmfights]

"If Foxe had any knowledge of ancient history, he would have realized that the Roman empire was still persecuting Christians at this time, and the papacy had no power to execute someone."
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Good point. What year did the Roman Catholic Church marry the state under Constantine? I've always believed that is the point where Roman Catholicism really went off track becoming more political than religious.

[Campion]

The Albigenses were a people of the reformed religion, who inhabited the country of Albi.

As vladimir998 correctly points out, this is nonsense.

If the Albigenses where "a people of the reformed religion," I guess the Unitarian-Universalists are people of the old-line orthodox religion?

The Albigenses were a dualistic sect which scorned marriage and childbearing and encouraged homosexuality and ritual suicide. In fact, the sect came from Bulgaria, which is why the slang term "bugger" (from "Bulgar") in English means ... well, you get the picture.

And Catholics persecuting the good Protestant citizens of Paris in the third century?

Catholics have done enough awful things in history without you having to rely on fables like this junk, Gamecock.

[Nihil Obstat]

I was reading about Opus Dei's albino assassin monks. You are just talking about everyday run-of-the-mill Knight's of Columbus assassin monks. Your grandfather may know too much. I will have to go to the Vatican's basement and access his file on the giant computer. Set your decoder to "Advent" and I will get back to you.

[Campion]

Good point.

Yes, because it shows clearly that Foxe doesn't know what he's talking about.

What year did the Roman Catholic Church marry the state under Constantine?

Toleration of the Christian religion was enacted by the Edict of Milan in AD 315, I believe. Catholic Christianity became the state religion under Constantine's successor (a few emperors removed) Theodosius the Great, around AD 380.

I've always believed that is the point where Roman Catholicism really went off track becoming more political than religious.

If you want to talk about "more political than religious," study up on the history of the Reformation, especially in England and Germany.

[vladimir998]

As a Church Historian I can only encourage Christians, especially Protestants, to actually research Church History. Anyone interested in Foxe should probably look here for starters: http://www.hrionline.ac.uk/foxe/index.html

It takes some effort to be knowledgeable, but it is so much better to have a clue than to be gullible and clueless.