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Megachurches 'shallow in theology'
Herald Sun ^ | 22 February 2006

Posted on 02/21/2006 2:17:28 PM PST by Aussie Dasher

THE head of the World Council of Churches has expressed concern about the spread of megachurches around the world, such as Hillsong in Sydney, saying they could lead to a Christianity that is "two miles long and one inch deep".

The WCC General Secretary Samuel Kobia said megachurches - huge Protestant churches with charismatic pastors, lively music and other services - mostly ran on a business model to make worshippers feel good and were shallow in their theology.

Megachurches, which pack in thousands for rousing Sunday worship services, are popular in suburbs in the United States. Most are evangelical or Pentecostal, with few or no ties to mainline churches such as the Lutherans or Episcopalians.

Mr Kobia said the megachurch movement, which is not represented in the mostly mainline Protestant or Orthodox World Council of Churches, broke down borders among denominations with a populist message.

"It has no depth, in most cases, theologically speaking, and has no appeal for any commitment," the Kenyan Methodist said at the WCC world assembly in this Brazilian city.

The megachurches simply wanted individuals to feel good about themselves, he said.

"It's a church being organised on corporate logic. That can be quite dangerous if we are not very careful, because this may become a Christianity which I describe as 'two miles long and one inch deep'."

Reverend Geoff Tunnicliffe, international director of the 400 million member World Evangelical Alliance, said at the assembly that "historical and deeply-felt issues" separated them from other branches of Christianity.

The largest US megachurches attract some 20,000 worshippers every Sunday. Abroad, megachurches have also sprouted up in Australia, South Korea, Britain, Canada, and other countries.

According to a report by the Hartford Institute for Religion Research, there were 1210 US churches drawing more than 2000 worshipers, the official minimum for a megachurch. That was double the number in 2000.

The WCC groups nearly 350 Protestant and Orthodox churches that mostly broke away from the Roman Catholic Church in the Great Schism of 1054 or in the 16th century Reformation.


TOPICS: Current Events; Evangelical Christian; Ministry/Outreach; Theology; Worship
KEYWORDS: christianity; megachurch; megachurches; theology; wcc
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To: Larry Lucido

Every time I think of these mega-churches I am reminded of the following........just my opinion of course.

//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

One Sunday morning an old cowboy entered a church just before services were to begin. Although the old man and his clothes were spotlessly clean, he wore jeans, a denim shirt and boots that were very worn and ragged. In his hand he carried a worn out old hat and an equally worn out old bible. The church he entered was in a very upscale and exclusive part of the city. It was the largest and most beautiful church the old cowboy had ever seen. It had high cathedral ceilings, ornate statues, beautiful murals and stained glass windows, plush carpet, and velvet like cushioned pews. The building must have cost many millions of dollars to build and maintain. The men, women and children of the congregation were all dressed in the finest and most expensive suits, dresses, shoes, and jewelry the old cowboy had ever witnessed.

As the poorly dressed cowboy took a seat the others moved away from him. No one greeted him. No one welcomed him. No one offered a handshake. No one spoke to him. They were all appalled at his appearance and did not attempt to hide the fact. There were many glances in his direction as the others frowned and commented among themselves about his shabby attire. A few chuckles and giggles came from some of the younger members.

The preacher gave a long sermon about Hellfire and brimstone and a stern lecture on how much money the church needed to do God's work. When the offering plate was passed thousands of dollars came pouring forth.

As soon as the service was over the congregation hurried out. Once again no one spoke or even nodded to the stranger in the ragged clothes and boots. As the old cowboy was leaving the church the preacher approached him. Instead of welcoming him, the preacher asked the cowboy to do him a favor. "Before you come back in here again, have a talk with God and ask him what He thinks would be appropriate attire for worshiping in this church," the preacher said. The old cowboy assured the preacher he would do that and left.

The very next Sunday morning the old cowboy showed back up for the services wearing the same ragged jeans, shirt, boots, and hat. Once again the congregation was appalled at his appearance. He was completely shunned and ignored again. The preacher noticed the man still wearing his ragged clothes and boots, and instead of beginning his sermon, stepped down from the pulpit and walked over to where the man sat alone. "I thought I asked you to speak to God before you came back to our church," the preacher said.

"I did," replied the old cowboy.

"If you spoke to God, what did he tell you the proper attire should be for worshiping in here?" asked the preacher.

"Well sir", said the old cowboy, "God told me that He wouldn't have the slightest idea what was appropriate attire for worshiping in your church. He says He's never even been in here before."

///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

Stay safe !


121 posted on 02/22/2006 1:01:24 PM PST by Squantos (Be polite. Be professional. But, have a plan to kill everyone you meet. ©)
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To: Sybeck1
So how many members does a church have to have before it goes "mega"?

Whatever number irritates the person doing the criticizing. :-)

122 posted on 02/22/2006 1:05:17 PM PST by Larry Lucido
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To: Desdemona
Not mention the mega soung system, custom made choir robes, the pipeless organ...blah, blah, blah.

From your home page:

"True followers of Christ; Be prepared to have a world make jokes at your expense." Bishop Fulton Sheen.

Guess no one is above being the butt of jokes. Or the maker of such jokes.

123 posted on 02/22/2006 1:08:29 PM PST by Larry Lucido
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To: Squantos

LOL! Not bad.


124 posted on 02/22/2006 1:09:50 PM PST by Larry Lucido
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To: Larry Lucido; SLB; Jeff Head; AAABEST; pocat

I believe it was SLB that shared that with me the first time......


125 posted on 02/22/2006 1:14:58 PM PST by Squantos (Be polite. Be professional. But, have a plan to kill everyone you meet. ©)
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To: blue-duncan

My but you are so naive. Ever hear of selective inforcement? By the way, when Carter was Pres - during the energy crunch- my church had a local fire official break into the Sun service to tell the deacons they had to turn down the thermostat. I've not forgotten.


126 posted on 02/22/2006 1:42:47 PM PST by aumrl
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To: Knitting A Conundrum
I agree. God's holiness and His love are inseparatable. They are not polarizing concepts like humans tend to think they are. There is human love and then there is the real deal: God's love. We have perverted the meaning of true love. How could God's love be genuine if He did not want us to be holy as He is holy. Our sin separated us from Him in the first place. He has the power to forgive AND the power to transform. They are a free gift but a packaged deal. If you profess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord then you are saying He is LORD of YOUR life. If you believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead then you believe in your heart that God also has the will and the power to transform your heart, to raise you to walk in newness of life, to make you a slave of righteousness, etc.

Too many people want the perks without the cost of Christianity. The call is to surrender all. That is faith's evidence. And it's all or nothing. Sanctification is a process and justification is an event, but just as surely as we can believe God for justification, we can believe and expect His sactification. If we do not see the fruits then we had better check and be sure we are not believing in a false gospel and a deceptive image of Christ. Otherwise it may be us who one day hear, "Depart from me, I never knew you."

127 posted on 02/22/2006 1:49:43 PM PST by The Ghost of FReepers Past (Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light..... Isaiah 5:20)
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To: aumrl

No, not naive. Been advising churches for 40 years on their building and expansion programs. By the way in your tag line you mention Shelton. Are you referring to Carl McIntire's Shelton college?


128 posted on 02/22/2006 1:49:47 PM PST by blue-duncan
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To: The Ghost of FReepers Past

---Too many people want the perks without the cost of Christianity---

excellently said.


129 posted on 02/22/2006 1:59:30 PM PST by Knitting A Conundrum (Act Justly, Love Mercy, and Walk Humbly With God Micah 6:8)
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To: freebilly
Are you committing a mortal or venial sin if you break one of the Commandments? Let me know if you also keep all of the Mosaic Laws listed in Leviticus. You do keep all of them, don't you? You are still under the yoke of the law, aren't you?

Of course Christians fail, miserably sometimes. But the sign of a true Christian is his discomfort with his sin. He has the Holy Spirit who convicts him when he sins. Sanctification is a process. But is not a dealer installed option that you can take or leave when you pick up your free gift of justification. Those God justifies He also sanctifies. Perfection won't come until heaven, but if you are not being sanctified -- that means corrected like a son when you sin -- then you had better re-examine your definition of faith. Faith is invisible but like the wind, we can see its evidence.

And sancification is not works. It is God at work in you to will and work for His good pleasure. You are no longer your own when you are a Christian. You've been bought with a price and He WILL make you into a new creature. Old things pass away. All things beocme new. You will fail. You will be convicted, disciplined, and you will grow and learn. Not until heaven will we be truly made over into His image, for only then will we be able to see Him as He is -- fully. But the process begins here as evidence of our faith and as a witness to the lost.

130 posted on 02/22/2006 2:00:21 PM PST by The Ghost of FReepers Past (Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light..... Isaiah 5:20)
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To: The Ghost of FReepers Past
But the sign of a true Christian is his discomfort with his sin

On Freerepublic it appears that discomfort with the sins of others is the rule for most who post here....

131 posted on 02/22/2006 2:52:53 PM PST by freebilly
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To: Aussie Dasher

For later reading


132 posted on 02/22/2006 2:55:34 PM PST by Rightly Biased (Valor is a Gift.Those having it never know for sure whether they have it till the test comes)
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To: JamesP81

I am a Catholic and not familiar with what goes on in any of these other churches.


133 posted on 02/22/2006 3:17:08 PM PST by potlatch (Does a clean house indicate that there is a broken computer in it?)
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To: jan in Colorado; ntnychik; devolve; PhilDragoo
make worshipers feel good

That sounds like what the schools started doing many years ago, making children feel 'entitled'! That certainly isn't the purpose of a church.

134 posted on 02/22/2006 3:20:34 PM PST by potlatch (Does a clean house indicate that there is a broken computer in it?)
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To: Squantos; Larry Lucido; Jeff Head; AAABEST; pocat
When I used this it was directed at a mainstream denominational church we used to attend. We now attend a mini-mega church, about 1,000 at services on Sunday. The service is deeper into theology than any others we have attended. The mainstream we attended is on a rapid decline, and with an attitude like this it is no wonder.
135 posted on 02/22/2006 3:24:24 PM PST by SLB (Wyoming's Alan Simpson on the Washington press - "all you get is controversy, crap and confusion")
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To: freebilly
It is not true love to totally ignore the sin of others. If someone were hanging by their fingertips over a bridge would you stop, say "hi" real nicely, and just pretend to not notice his peril? Not if you love the person. There is likewise no true love that will completely ignore sin. That's a human deception because we don't like to be told we are wrong about anything, so we hang the truth speaker with guilt and shame instead of having to face the reality of our own guilt and shame. And even if the messagenger is a hypocrite, the truth is still the truth.

That's not to say that your first priority isn't your own sin. It is. Nor is it to say that you ever leave the sinner without direction and hope. But true godly love will speak the truth about sin.

It is a modern farce of pop psychology that says guilt is a bad and evil thing. (Notice that the no-guilt theory is judgmental too, it just transfers the guilt to others.) Truth helps a person face their sin and deal with it. Guilt (deserved guilt for wrong thoughts, words, and deeds) is the sign of a healthy conscience. To understand the gospel of grace you must understand the truth about sin -- your own sin. Otherwise you are hopelessly lost and eternally doomed. The truth about sin is a vital part of the gospel message we are commanded to share with others.

More directly to your statement, "On Freerepublic it appears that discomfort with the sins of others is the rule for most who post here...." Isn't that what you are doing, wagging your finger at fellow freepers? I don't see you confessing any sins. Just like you, other freepers are simply stating what they think the right standards should be. They aren't saying they should live by different standards than everyone else.

136 posted on 02/22/2006 3:31:59 PM PST by The Ghost of FReepers Past (Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light..... Isaiah 5:20)
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To: SLB; Squantos; Jeff Head; AAABEST; pocat
Sounds like the church I'm going to, but the congregation is over 5000. One thing I like (in addition to the Bible based teachings) is that the pastor is a big game hunter and supporter of an armed citizenry (he made mention of New Orleans and the Second Amendment in last Sunday's sermon), plus he's running for Republican senator from Michigan and has a real good chance.


137 posted on 02/22/2006 3:38:02 PM PST by Larry Lucido
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To: Aussie Dasher; alpha-8-25-02
This is the First Time I can Recall Being in Agreement with the World Council of Churches on Anything!

Mega-Churches Seem to Teach Many of the New Fads that are Generated Periodically Within Professing Christian Circles. Whether it's "Felt-Needs," "Prosperity," the (Blasphemous) "god-Hood of man," or a Dozen Other Errors, One must Beware of a Lack of Discernment that is Often Evident in these Churches. (Of Course, in these Days of Doctrinal Apostacy, One can Find Grievous Errors in Many Places; we're Truly Living Out 2Tim.4:3,4, Unfortunately!)

138 posted on 02/22/2006 3:41:05 PM PST by Kitty Mittens
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To: SLB; Squantos; Jeff Head; AAABEST; pocat
Here's my "mega"-church, btw. It's set in an old Franciscan college outside of Detroit. I work night security there and have the whole place to myself (the chapel is how it used to look).


139 posted on 02/22/2006 3:42:13 PM PST by Larry Lucido
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To: Aussie Dasher
It floors me how people still think of church as what happens on Sunday. Granted, what the preacher says on Sunday should be Biblically sound and accurate, but thats not where the church begins and ends. True religion/spirituality happens 24/7 - its the honest relationships that occur throughout the week, including Sunday, that make a church.

If people are looking to get all their Biblical knowledge during a one-hour sermon on Sundays, they are in trouble. More than what a WCC or a "megachurch" can offer or fix.

I've attended a number of churches in my short 30 years on this earth, and the most sound spiritual mentoring and guidance I got was at non-denominational megachurches. But thats only my anecdotal experience :-)
140 posted on 02/22/2006 3:43:20 PM PST by kemathen7
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