And my family wonders why I converted to Catholicism?
Your place . . . . . . . . . . or mine?
Posted on 01/12/2006 6:32:30 AM PST by NYer
JUDAS ISCARIOT, the disciple who betrayed Jesus with a kiss, is to be given a makeover by Vatican scholars.
The proposed “rehabilitation” of the man who was paid 30 pieces of silver to identify Jesus to Roman soldiers in the Garden of Gethsemane, comes on the ground that he was not deliberately evil, but was just “fulfilling his part in God’s plan”.
Christians have traditionally blamed Judas for aiding and abetting the Crucifixion, and his name is synonymous with treachery. According to St Luke, Judas was “possessed by Satan”.
Now, a campaign led by Monsignor Walter Brandmuller, head of the Pontifical Committee for Historical Science, is aimed at persuading believers to look kindly at a man reviled for 2,000 years.
Mgr Brandmuller told fellow scholars it was time for a “re-reading” of the Judas story. He is supported by Vittorio Messori, a prominent Catholic writer close to both Pope Benedict XVI and the late John Paul II.
Signor Messori said that the rehabilitation of Judas would “resolve the problem of an apparent lack of mercy by Jesus toward one of his closest collaborators”.
He told La Stampa that there was a Christian tradition that held that Judas was forgiven by Jesus and ordered to purify himself with “spiritual exercises” in the desert.
In scholarly circles, it has long been unfashionable to demonise Judas and Catholics in Britain are likely to welcome Judas’s rehabilitation.
Father Allen Morris, Christian Life and Worship secretary for the Catholic Bishops of England and Wales, said: “If Christ died for all — is it possible that Judas too was redeemed through the Master he betrayed?” The “rehabilitation” of Judas could help the Pope’s drive to improve Christian-Jewish relations, which he has made a priority of his pontificate.
Some Bible experts say Judas was “a victim of a theological libel which helped to create anti Semitism” by forming an image of him as a “sinister villain” prepared to betray for money.
In many medieval plays and paintings Judas is portrayed with a hooked nose and exaggerated Semitic features. In Dante’s Inferno, Judas is relegated to the lowest pits of Hell, where he is devoured by a three-headed demon.
The move to clear Judas’s name coincides with plans to publish the alleged Gospel of Judas for the first time in English, German and French. Though not written by Judas, it is said to reflect the belief among early Christians — now gaining ground in the Vatican — that in betraying Christ Judas was fulfilling a divine mission, which led to the arrest and Crucifixion of Jesus and hence to man’s salvation.
Mgr Brandmuller said that he expected “no new historical evidence” from the supposed gospel, which had been excluded from the canon of accepted Scripture.
But it could “serve to reconstruct the events and context of Christ’s teachings as they were seen by the early Christians”. This included that Jesus had always preached “forgiveness for one’s enemies”.
Some Vatican scholars have expressed concern over the reconsideration of Judas. Monsignor Giovanni D’Ercole, a Vatican theologian, said it was “dangerous to re-evaulate Judas and muddy the Gospel accounts by reference to apocryphal writings. This can only create confusion in believers.” The Gospels tell how Judas later returned the 30 pieces of silver — his “blood money” — and h anged himself, or according to the Acts of the Apostles, “fell headlong and burst open so that all his entrails burst out”.
Some accounts suggest he acted out of disappointment that Jesus was not a revolutionary who intended to overthrow Roman occupation and establish “God’s Kingdom on Earth”.
In the Gospel accounts, Jesus reveals to the disciples at the Last Supper that one of them will betray him, but does not say which. He adds “Woe to that man by whom the Son of Man is betrayed! It would have been better for that man if he had not been born.”
But he also — according to St Matthew — acknowledged that Judas had a divine function to fulfil, saying to him during the arrest, “Friend, do what you are here to do” and adding that “the prophecies of the Scriptures must be fulfilled”.
The “Gospel of Judas”, a 62-page worn and tattered papyrus, was found in Egypt half a century ago and later sold by antiquities dealers to the Maecenas Foundation in Basle, Switzerland.
MOCK OF AGES
What are you talking about in the reference to Purgatory? You misinterpret what I said. The reference was hypothetical and put there for contrast to what should have been the obvious slant of my post. I have little doubt that Judas is in Hell. Mainly, this is based on the words of Christ in Matthew 26, but there are other reasons, as you alluded to yourself.
And I do believe that I am entirely on-board with regard to the nature and purpose of Purgatory... To the extent that there is a hypothetical possibility that Judas went there, it would be because of repentance *before* his death, not "forgiveness" after. I don't think that was even implied.
I agree with you. The role of Judas in Jesus' crucification has been misunderstood for centuries.
Judas? No way. Judas was just a tool. It was Rove who did it.
Little 't' tradition. That must be one extremely obscure tradition.
I think I'll rely on the Judge of the living and the dead in this matter. This kind of stuff is his business, not ours.
All we can do is speculate. It seems sort of pointless.
In Orthodoxy, Wednesdays are fast days and are the days upon which we meditate on Judas' betrayal of Christ. I doubt sincerely if this will play well in the East if this silly idea ever gets off the ground. You guys really do need to muzzle some of these characters.
There are 2 billion+ catholics. Are you up to the challenge? :-)
Really? I thought it was around 1.1 billion.
She included the Church triumphant.
I agree with you,..not to be confused with condoning the behavior of Judas. For the Church Age believer, once regenerated in the spirit with a spirit life, we have assurance of everlasting life. An intersting question though is for those who lived and died immediately before Christ, or before Pentecost, if they had faith, then they still had to have a relationship with God through the priesthood. So Judas' death by suicide may have been treated differently than post-Pentecost believers.
The point is Why was it Judas? and Why take money? The Jews wanted to test Jesus belief and pressed the issue
of Jesus death to hasten it. My simple point of view as
I understand it and my belief that Judas sinned by taking money for his deed. Even though we are forgiven doesn't mean we will go to heaven, or sorry if I am mistaken. It is
also my simple belief that only 10,000 or such will go to
heaven anyway.
The Times botched the story:
"Mea culpa - Why it is important to directly read mistranslated texts/ The wrong Judas article in The Times"
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/1558208/posts
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Questions:
Why didn't Jesus try to stop Judas from betraying Him? It would seem Jesus should try to dissuade someone from doing evil if indeed Jesus truly didn't want Judas to tell His location.
Did Judas really betray anyone? Jesus wasn't exactly hiding from the authorities, was He? So he told the Sanhedrin where to look, big deal. He never told any lies or untruths about Jesus.
Last time I checked, Jesus was killed by crucifixion, nails applied courtesy of the Roman Army.
This simple fact seems to escape a lot of people. I think the Roman authorities had a lot of influence in which Gospels were accepted and which ones were rejected. By rejecting the Gospel of Judas, the Romans were convenitently able to deflect blame from themselves and onto Judas and the Jews who supposedly demanded Barrabbas be freed, not Jesus. The new view of Judas has the ring of truth to it and makes a lot more sense.
- 1 Corinthians 15:16-22
Whether Jesus asked Judas to betray him or not isn't really relevant. The betrayal had to happen for the Lord's plan to move forward. Before Christ, physical death was final. There was no coming back. His Resurrection changed all that. His Atonement for our sins overcame spiritual death. We could return to live with our Heavenly Father. So, does this knowledge make Judas a hero or a villain? If we are focused on the meaning and importance of the Atonement and the Resurrection, it just doesn't matter.
I blame Constantine.
God never interferes with man's free will. As it was with satan, Judas attempted to force Jesus's hand to interfere in just such a way. Judas knew who Jesus was afterall.
" It would seem Jesus should try to dissuade someone from doing evil if indeed Jesus truly didn't want Judas to tell His location.
...Jesus wasn't exactly hiding from the authorities, was He? So he told the Sanhedrin where to look, big deal. He never told any lies or untruths about Jesus."
Having known who Jesus was, knowing the commandments and having heard Jesus explain these things, Judas made up his own mind to attempt to force Jesus's hand. This decision was an attempt to force the hand of Jesus against His Father's wishes-against the Holy Spirit.
Those attempting to kill Jesus needed a clandestine op and trial hidden from the people. The success of the murder conspiracy depended on the confusion and fear created with stealthy and speedy action. Pulling Jesus from a public appearance, surrounded by those lifted in spirit by His words wouldn't have gone down well. Remember in all this, that they would have no power over Him, unless allowed from above.
"Did Judas really betray anyone?"
With a kiss.
It's relevant to who God is and what He, the Holy Spirit stands for. Conspiring to commit suicide and carrying out a fraudulent scheme is not something the Holy spirit engages in.
"The betrayal had to happen for the Lord's plan to move forward. Before Christ, physical death was final."
The Lord's plan was to dwell amoung us and teach. His plan did not include being killed at the hands of the wicked. That was the plan of the wicked. God's plan was to dwell amoung us and demonstrate His Love in the face of the wicked.
"His Atonement for our sins overcame spiritual death."
His Atonement was contained in His forgiveness of the faults present in, the evils some had committed and He did this in the face of the wicked. The forgiveness was given regardless of the campaigns of the wicked. This passage from the OT covers God's day of vengeance, the redemption of His people and the praise and prayer of those redeemed. This happened on Good Friday. His own arm worked salvation for Him; as there was no one there to help. He became their Savior.
Isaiah 63:1-19
Who is this coming from Edom,
from Bozrah, with his garments stained crimson?
Who is this, robed in splendor,
striding forward in the greatness of his strength?
"It is I, speaking in righteousness,
mighty to save."
Why are your garments red,
like those of one treading the winepress?
"I have trodden the winepress alone;
from the nations no one was with me.
I trampled them in my anger
and trod them down in my wrath;
their blood spattered my garments,
and I stained all my clothing.
For the day of vengeance was in my heart,
and the year of my redemption has come.
I looked, but there was no one to help,
I was appalled that no one gave support;
so my own arm worked salvation for me,
and my own wrath sustained me.
I trampled the nations in my anger;
in my wrath I made them drunk
and poured their blood on the ground."
I will tell of the kindnesses of the LORD,
the deeds for which he is to be praised,
according to all the LORD has done for us—
yes, the many good things he has done
for the house of Israel,
according to his compassion and many kindnesses.
He said, "Surely they are my people,
sons who will not be false to me";
and so he became their Savior.
In all their distress he too was distressed,
and the angel of his presence saved them.
In his love and mercy he redeemed them;
he lifted them up and carried them
all the days of old.
Yet they rebelled
and grieved his Holy Spirit.
So he turned and became their enemy
and he himself fought against them.
Then his people recalled [a] the days of old,
the days of Moses and his people—
where is he who brought them through the sea,
with the shepherd of his flock?
Where is he who set
his Holy Spirit among them,
who sent his glorious arm of power
to be at Moses' right hand,
who divided the waters before them,
to gain for himself everlasting renown,
who led them through the depths?
Like a horse in open country,
they did not stumble;
like cattle that go down to the plain,
they were given rest by the Spirit of the LORD.
This is how you guided your people
to make for yourself a glorious name.
Look down from heaven and see
from your lofty throne, holy and glorious.
Where are your zeal and your might?
Your tenderness and compassion are withheld from us.
But you are our Father,
though Abraham does not know us
or Israel acknowledge us;
you, O LORD, are our Father,
our Redeemer from of old is your name.
Why, O LORD, do you make us wander from your ways
and harden our hearts so we do not revere you?
Return for the sake of your servants,
the tribes that are your inheritance.
For a little while your people possessed your holy place,
but now our enemies have trampled down your sanctuary.
We are yours from of old;
but you have not ruled over them,
they have not been called by your name.
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