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To: floridaobserver
16 For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised:
17 And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.
18 Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished.
19 If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable.
20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.
21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

- 1 Corinthians 15:16-22

Whether Jesus asked Judas to betray him or not isn't really relevant. The betrayal had to happen for the Lord's plan to move forward. Before Christ, physical death was final. There was no coming back. His Resurrection changed all that. His Atonement for our sins overcame spiritual death. We could return to live with our Heavenly Father. So, does this knowledge make Judas a hero or a villain? If we are focused on the meaning and importance of the Atonement and the Resurrection, it just doesn't matter.

37 posted on 04/10/2006 8:18:02 PM PDT by Reaganesque
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To: Reaganesque
" Whether Jesus asked Judas to betray him or not isn't really relevant. "

It's relevant to who God is and what He, the Holy Spirit stands for. Conspiring to commit suicide and carrying out a fraudulent scheme is not something the Holy spirit engages in.

"The betrayal had to happen for the Lord's plan to move forward. Before Christ, physical death was final."

The Lord's plan was to dwell amoung us and teach. His plan did not include being killed at the hands of the wicked. That was the plan of the wicked. God's plan was to dwell amoung us and demonstrate His Love in the face of the wicked.

"His Atonement for our sins overcame spiritual death."

His Atonement was contained in His forgiveness of the faults present in, the evils some had committed and He did this in the face of the wicked. The forgiveness was given regardless of the campaigns of the wicked. This passage from the OT covers God's day of vengeance, the redemption of His people and the praise and prayer of those redeemed. This happened on Good Friday. His own arm worked salvation for Him; as there was no one there to help. He became their Savior.

Isaiah 63:1-19

Who is this coming from Edom,
from Bozrah, with his garments stained crimson?
Who is this, robed in splendor,
striding forward in the greatness of his strength?
"It is I, speaking in righteousness,
mighty to save."

Why are your garments red,
like those of one treading the winepress?

"I have trodden the winepress alone;
from the nations no one was with me.
I trampled them in my anger
and trod them down in my wrath;
their blood spattered my garments,
and I stained all my clothing.

For the day of vengeance was in my heart,
and the year of my redemption has come.

I looked, but there was no one to help,
I was appalled that no one gave support;
so my own arm worked salvation for me,
and my own wrath sustained me.

I trampled the nations in my anger;
in my wrath I made them drunk
and poured their blood on the ground."

I will tell of the kindnesses of the LORD,
the deeds for which he is to be praised,
according to all the LORD has done for us—
yes, the many good things he has done
for the house of Israel,
according to his compassion and many kindnesses.

He said, "Surely they are my people,
sons who will not be false to me";
and so he became their Savior.

In all their distress he too was distressed,
and the angel of his presence saved them.
In his love and mercy he redeemed them;
he lifted them up and carried them
all the days of old.

Yet they rebelled
and grieved his Holy Spirit.
So he turned and became their enemy
and he himself fought against them.

Then his people recalled [a] the days of old,
the days of Moses and his people—
where is he who brought them through the sea,
with the shepherd of his flock?
Where is he who set
his Holy Spirit among them,

who sent his glorious arm of power
to be at Moses' right hand,
who divided the waters before them,
to gain for himself everlasting renown,

who led them through the depths?
Like a horse in open country,
they did not stumble;

like cattle that go down to the plain,
they were given rest by the Spirit of the LORD.
This is how you guided your people
to make for yourself a glorious name.

Look down from heaven and see
from your lofty throne, holy and glorious.
Where are your zeal and your might?
Your tenderness and compassion are withheld from us.

But you are our Father,
though Abraham does not know us
or Israel acknowledge us;
you, O LORD, are our Father,
our Redeemer from of old is your name.

Why, O LORD, do you make us wander from your ways
and harden our hearts so we do not revere you?
Return for the sake of your servants,
the tribes that are your inheritance.

For a little while your people possessed your holy place,
but now our enemies have trampled down your sanctuary.

We are yours from of old;
but you have not ruled over them,
they have not been called by your name.

40 posted on 04/10/2006 10:52:39 PM PDT by spunkets
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