Posted on 11/30/2005 6:41:45 PM PST by NYer
Refers to St. Augustine's Commentary on Psalm 136(137)
VATICAN CITY, NOV. 30, 2005 (Zenit.org).- Whoever seeks peace and the good of the community with a pure conscience, and keeps alive the desire for the transcendent, will be saved even if he lacks biblical faith, says Benedict XVI.
The Pope made this affirmation today at the general audience, commenting on a meditation written by St. Augustine (354-430).
On a rainy morning in Rome, the Holy Father's meditation, addressed to more than 23,000 people gathered in St. Peter's Square, concentrated on the suffering of the Jewish people in the Babylonian exile, expressed dramatically in Psalm 136(137).
The Pontiff referred to Augustine's commentary on this composition of the Jewish people, noting that this "Father of the Church introduces a surprising element of great timeliness."
Augustine "knows that also among the inhabitants of Babylon there are people who are committed to peace and the good of the community, despite the fact that they do not share the biblical faith, that they do not know the hope of the Eternal City to which we aspire," Benedict XVI stated.
"They have a spark of desire for the unknown, for the greatest, for the transcendent, for a genuine redemption," explained the Pope, quoting Augustine.
This spark
"And he says that among the persecutors, among the nonbelievers, there are people with this spark, with a kind of faith, of hope, in the measure that is possible for them in the circumstances in which they live," the Holy Father continued.
"With this faith in an unknown reality, they are really on the way to the authentic Jerusalem, to Christ," he clarified.
Continuing with his quotes from Augustine, the Pope added that "God will not allow them to perish with Babylon, having predestined them to be citizens of Jerusalem, on the condition, however, that, living in Babylon, they do not seek pride, outdated pomp and arrogance."
The Bishop of Rome concluded by inviting those present to pray to the Lord "that he will awaken in all of us this desire, this openness to God, and that those who do not know God may also be touched by his love, so that all of us journey together toward the definitive City and that the light of this City might also shine in our time and in our world."
BTW, did you ever finish the download of e-sword? If not, I'll buy you a copy of the cd for Christmas and mail it to your church.
The Bible says that works of the Mosaic Law do not justify. It does not say that those who "set their hopes on living according to God's law" cannot be saved, merely that their own efforts in doing so cannot save them apart from grace.
I would hope that you would agree that living according to the moral law is a very good thing. Believing that you can live that way apart from grace is an error, as is concluding that righteous living (even aided by grace) is what saves. However, it doesn't follow that everyone who is in a state of theological error is damned. "Salvation by faith" does not mean "salvation by doctrinally orthodox profession of faith".
PM, I simply haven't gotten back to it yet. If I remember, I'll try another download tonight while I'm sleeping.
Dialup Man is slow, slow, slow.
"I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life; no man comes to the Father except by me." Jesus Christ
I think we're simply fine-tuning the exact language to get at saying that justification is not by works. I accept your language above as better than mine.
Any unbeliever who expects his works will earn him the right to bang on the Pearly Gates and demand entrance to heaven will be terribly surprised. He'll discover that he broke that law on multiple occasions.
"Grace" would be a fifth point.
Yes, but my point is additionally that he might still get in -- just not in the way he expected to. In other words, we agree that he's in error, but people can sometimes be saved in spite of their errors.
What about the Syrophoenician Woman? (Mark 7:25-30/Matthew 15:21-28)
I think that is dancing pretty close to the "other" gospel mentioned by Paul in Galatians. I would not be willing to express a belief that there is any other way to the Father except through Christ. Read these verses carefully and in order:
Mat 10:32 Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 10:33 But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.
That is not a correctible error. If you get that wrong here, you will be in a lot of trouble there.
Even the Good Thief was a non-believer, but Jesus told him, "This day you will be with me in paradise."
Why should it be ugly?
But, then you agree that it's by a different way than by his works.
What might that way be?
But you aren't getting the whole picture -- these non-believers need to first of all, believe, then they need to ask for forgiveness for their sins in the Sacrament of Reconciliation.
Then they go on to receive the Sacraments of Baptism, Holy Eucharist and Confirmation.
Come to an Easter Vigil Mass sometime. It is spectacular!
I prefer to believe that he was a believer. My reasoning for that is his words, Lu 23:42 - Show Context Then he said to Jesus, "Lord, remember me when You come into Your kingdom."
He acknowledged Jesus as Lord, and he believed that the cross would not prevent Jesus from being Lord of His Kingdom.
**In my office, there is a wonderful man who was raised catholic, married a catholic woman in a catholic church. They are non practicing catholics. When their only child was born, they decided not to have her baptized into the catholic faith, opting to allow her the "freedom of choice" in selecting a religion when she grows up.**
This sounds like my daughter and son in law! Pray for them.
**Please remember Sara in your prayers.** And please pray for Stephanie, my grand-daughter who is not baptized.
Amazing news...Christ died needlessly according to the pope. And people wonder why protestants have a problem with catholicism.
This has always been taught. This is not "new think"
Jesus choosing to cast a demon out of a child on behalf of a mother who showed faith (the Mt. reference, primarily) is not the same as someone making it into heaven without acknowledging Christ at all, though.
That's not true. We are all saved only through Christ, but Catholic doctrine has always taught that people who never receive the Word or for some reason cannot hear it - but pursue what can be known of the Truth through natural reason according to their circumstances - can be saved.
But their salvation is still through Christ, and it is still our responsibility to preach the Gospel to the whole world. Christ is the Light of Life, and knowing the truth certainly makes it a lot more likely that one will be saved, and in addition that one's earthly life will be much better because it is lived in the light. This affects societies, as well: look at Christian societies, where the truth has been preached and was at various points followed by people (and still is followed by some), compared to Islamic societies, where falsehood is preached and the people live in repression and squalor.
While it may be possible for people to be saved even if they have not received the Word of God, it is definitely a lot more difficult, and it is our responsibility as Christians to make sure everyone hears the message.
Thank you very much. This is EXACTLY where all this leads when one forgets tradition. Quite frankly I would rather have a horde of faithful traditional Catholics telling me I'm wrong than to have a milktoast religion saying that everyone can be saved if they just do good things.
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