Posted on 09/29/2005 8:08:26 AM PDT by NYer
The media is rife with stories about the meeting between Pope Benedict XVI and famed Catholic dissident Hans Küng. There is also much heated debate within Catholic circles over what the (according to Küng) 4-hour meeting, signified.
Many orthodox Catholics are chalking the meeting up to the fact that Küng and Pope Benedict are old friends turned enemies and now reacquainted in their old age. So-called 'liberal' or dissident Catholics are reading into the meeting a 'new openness' to dissident views. Küng himself is musing about the meeting as a sign of new "openness" on the part of Pope Benedict.
While Küng has given several interviews following his meeting with the Pope, the only official message to come from the Vatican on the meeting contained few details. For the best summary of Küng's take on the meeting and his dissident history see John Allen's report in the National Catholic Reporter here: (warning: it is a dissident Catholic publication) http://nationalcatholicreporter.org/update/bn09260...
Küng suggests that Pope Benedict himself penned the Vatican statement on the meeting, checking it with Küng prior to releasing it. The text (which can be viewed here: http://www.ewtn.com/vnews/getstory.asp?number=6086... ) acknowledges the meeting but does not note the duration, and confirms that it was held in a "friendly atmosphere" and did not delve into doctrinal disputes. The statement notes that the discussion centered on Küng's 'Weltethos' (global ethics) project. The Vatican statement says "The Pope welcomed Professor Kung's efforts to contribute to a renewed recognition of the essential moral values of humanity through the dialogue of religions and in the encounter with secular reason. He stressed that the commitment to a renewed awareness of the values that sustain human life is also an important objective of his own pontificate."
The push for "values that sustain human life" on the part of the Pope seems to be the only significant point the Vatican has made with the announcement.
But for those following the global ethics project, that intervention by the Pope is significant indeed.
Küng first pushed his notion of a global ethic at the United Nations in 1991 and then at the Parliament of World Religions in 1993. There the gathered religious leaders adopted the declaration "Towards a Global Ethic" which became a rallying cry both in UN documents and gatherings of international leaders culminating in the formation of the Earth Charter by former Russian President Mikhail Gorbachev and Canadian-born UN environmentalist guru Maurice Strong. The founding documents of the Earth Charter credit Küng's global ethics with its underpinning.
While the global ethics document is amorphous and open-ended, the Earth Charter is in favour of abortion under the UN code words of 'reproductive' health in relation to population control. The Charter's resolution 7 calls all to "Adopt patterns of production, consumption, and reproduction that safeguard Earth's regenerative capacities, human rights, and community well-being" and in subsection 'e' calls on people to "Ensure universal access to health care that fosters reproductive health and responsible reproduction."
The Earth Charter has been criticized as a "new age Ten Commandments" seeking to supersede religious moral codes. Indeed the Earth Charter website (http://www.earthcharter.org ) boasts of nearly 15,000 "Groups, organizations and individuals from around the world, representing millions of people" which have officially endorsed the Earth Charter.
With the Pope stressing pro-life concerns to Küng, the progenitor of the Earth Charter, he can be seen as addressing the problem of the global ethic at its root. The Catholic Church has long acknowledged a system of moral ethics which can be agreed upon even without religious belief - that of natural law. However, current secular morality, such as that of the Earth Charter, has rejected natural law on issues of life and family and has turned evil into good and good into evil.
In the new morality, the right to life of the unborn has been translated into an anti-woman stance. In fact, the UN frequently pushes for abortion in the context of stopping maternal mortality, thus opposition to the availability of "safe, legal" abortion is seen as an anti-life position.
Faithful adherence to religion is also seen as tantamount to extremism leading to violence. The terrorism of Muslim extremism has lent itself neatly to that thesis.
Thus a moral code or global ethic superseding religious tenets sits well with many - a prescription for a world religion, not calling itself a religion, but a religion nonetheless.
Thanks for the info!
I would say that she is not confessing "to a man," but rather Christ himself. The priest is the instrument. Christ is working through him! Confession and Pennance is a way for us to get clean again and be restored. It's something that we have to do. It also goes hand in hand with recieving the Eucharist. We can't be in grave sin when we recieve the Eucharist, because the Eucharist is the Flesh and Blood of Christ Himself.
If you do indeed swim the Tiber, let be extend you a hearty welcome home to Rome!
Thanks!
I have gotten her to accept that the Catholic Church is the Church founded by Christ, however she thinks it has gone totally astray. Anyway, her major problem is the refusal to accept the idea of confessing to men i.e. Priests. Anyone have any advice?1. Be patient. Then,
At your first confession, do you try to go back and confess everything that you know you have done? How specific is it? Can I say "I have lusted after lots of women" or do I have to list every one? That could go on all night. LOL.Its called a general confession, and you can do one from time to time if you want (even after your first). You can be pretty general, its up to you. I don’t list every time I’ve committed each sin, like you say, it would take a while. I’d list each category out, and probably focus more on the ones that have been a real hindrance to you. One other thought, if you can, its nice to schedule some time with the priest, rather than getting in a large line on Sat. afternoon. You probably want all the time you can get to go through these things, and its more relaxing if no one is waiting.
patent
Great advice. Thanks. The interesting thing is that I pretty much decided I was Catholic two weeks ago, and have been feeling great since. She sees it, that's for sure.
"I have gotten her to accept that the Catholic Church is the Church founded by Christ, however she thinks it has gone totally astray. Anyway, her major problem is the refusal to accept the idea of confessing to men i.e. Priests. Anyone have any advice?"
I know other people have said stuff (and a lot better than I could), but I'll throw my 2cents in anyways...
You can be convinced intellectually of the need for Confession/Penance (however you like to call it) but there is nothing like actually going to Confession yourself. Afterwards, it is like you are floating in midair. (Similarly, Scott Hahn in his (excellent) book Lord Have Mercy likens it to Christ raising Lazarus from the dead.)
But don't neglect the effect of Confession while actually in the confessional. I know before I enter the confessional sometimes I will think I have prepared myself well, knowing my sins, etc., but once inside I have been silenced by the process, taking a while to even begin speaking. And then also, there is something about it that just makes you realize truly what sin does to the soul, and how grave our sins are.
Consider reading "Pardon and Peace" by a one Father Alfred Wilson. It's old, hard to find, but well worth the trouble. You can find "Lord Have Mercy" at any old Catholic bookstore; it's newer than Fr. Wilson's, so you might prefer that one just as well.
Also, here's a tip: find an excellent confessor. Although any priest is perfectly good for confession, there are some that have a very keen mind in determining our spiritual sicknesses, and their corresponding remedies.
Thanks. I really appreciate it.
My husband, Ventana, converted after about 15 years of marriage. At first, religion wasn't a big topic of discussion. Then, with kids, it was. Sometimes there were arguments. Finally, I just went on my own to church and gradually the little ones asked, "Daddy, aren't you going?"
So, eventually he began going with us and again, we got into some theological doozies but it was actually good because it challenged me to become MUCH more knowledgeable about my faith: I learned a lot and now teach a Religious Ed class.
I think, objectively speaking, that is was actually going to mass, hearing the gospel and scripture passages; listening to the homilies and observing the Eucharistic sacrifice of the mass was what was in and of itself a catechetizing experience for him.
Ultimately my son challenged him on a point of doctrine which my husband finally did agree with, I can't even remember what it was now, and once that happened it was like the veil fell away and he saw the Church as the one he wanted to be in and could accept. So in a way, the church works its way into your heart, I think, but also into your head. It does take time. I bet your wife will at the very least grow to respect and admire it greatly. God bless! V's wife
Thanks for the good perspective.
You should follow her lead on this one.
BigMack
RK, you gotten some fine advice here on the issue of Confession. If it means anything at all, you and your wife should know that it isn't just Roman Catholics who not only have but partake of the grace of the Sacrament of Confession. As an Orthodox Christian I have regularly gone to confession since I was little. It is a wonderful and transforming sacrament and one of the greatest gifts Christ left to his Church. Indeed, for the Orthodox, regular confession is a sine qua non of reception of the Eucharist. My experience throughout a lifetime of long confessions has been identical to those related to you by the Roman Cathlics here. I simply can't imagine life without it.
A priest is Christ's representative on earth. When confessing to a priest, you are confessing to God. The priest gives a penance to be served before the sacrament is complete, hence the true name of the sacrament - Penance.
This is a sacrament that has been with the church for centuries and is actually quite cathartic. It is quite a wonderful thing to walk out of the confessional felling clean, having unburdened yourself. Truly.
You could mention to her that God is listening to her confession, not just the priest. The priest is there as a witness, to offer prayer, comfort, and encouragement through penance.
The way I see it (just my humble "o", no one elses) it holds me accountable to confess my sins by mouth. Many times, the priest will offer advice via scripture to pray over, that helps one over come that sin.
There is a lot of truth behind the saying, "confession is good for the soul." It's not as bad or intimidating as some perceive.
Thanks, I appreciate it.
"There is also much heated debate within Catholic circles over what the (according to Küng) 4-hour meeting, signified."
Wait a second... Bishop Fellay gets 35 mins and this heretic gets 4 hours??
Perhaps that's all the time Bishop Fellay wanted. It was more than enough to state his demands.
oops..lazy brain..meant to say "...Body and Blood of Christ..." on #22
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