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"subtle seductions, which act unnoticed"
1 posted on 07/13/2005 12:49:21 AM PDT by dsc
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To: dsc

Ah yes, it is those evil books rather than those video games, television programs, magazine advertising, billboards, etc that so drastically affect children...

Yeah right.


2 posted on 07/13/2005 12:57:22 AM PDT by kingu
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To: dsc

Lord of the Rings is better. I've read Harry Potter and it's easy to see why kids these days don't read books like The Hobbit, LOTR and C.S.Lewis.


6 posted on 07/13/2005 3:27:59 AM PDT by cyborg (http://mentalmumblings.blogspot.com/)
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To: dsc

Unless he's read the books, I am uninterested in his opinion. Actually, I'm uninterested even if he *has* read them.


25 posted on 07/13/2005 6:15:26 AM PDT by Sloth (History's greatest monsters: Hitler, Stalin, Mao & Durbin)
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To: dsc; kingu; DefiantZERO; cyborg; don-o
I'm not totally convinced on either side, but let me just consider a couple of angles here.

(1) Cardinal Ratzinger's brief comments from two years ago don't justify the headline on this story, "Pope Opposes Harry Potter Novels." I realize that headline-writes have to do something to attract our attention --- and a dollypartonesque lady with a wardrobe malfunction can't really be insinuated with no connection whatsoever --- so we have to have the "Pope" opposing "Harry" as if this were a new development in dogma.

News Flash: It's not.

(2) I've read all the Harry Potter novels thus far, and in my judgment Rowling treats magic as a fantasy "alternative technology." Handy kitchen spoons that make their own cream sauce, and so forth. When things get really occult, as in being obsessed or possessed by a perverted entity (e.g. Voldemort or the Dementors), Rowling successfully communicates that "This is something different, this is truly evil." So that's what I'd want her to say, I'm pretty sure.

(3) Though Card. Ratzinger's 2003 note to Gabriele Kuby is not a doctrinal motu proprio from the Pope, I nevertheless have the highest respect for Ratzinger's moral goodness, knowledge of Catholic teaching, and intellectual sophistication with regard to literature. This gives me a much-higher-than-common respect for his opinion, as well as a curiosity about what Gabriele Kuby had to say.

So, I'm all ears.

26 posted on 07/13/2005 6:20:31 AM PDT by Mrs. Don-o (I believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord and Giver of Life.)
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To: dsc

every once in awhile the vatican says, "stop the world, we want to control your lives".

in 1870 pope pius ix issued his "syllabus of errors" in which he claimed for his church the control of science and culture.


32 posted on 07/13/2005 6:42:32 AM PDT by ken21 (it takes a village to brainwash your child + to steal your property! /s)
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To: dsc
One of the greatest plays in English literature is about witches and witchcraft - It's called Macbeth. Perhaps the Pope never heard of it.
33 posted on 07/13/2005 6:45:05 AM PDT by MrsEmmaPeel
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To: dsc

How does the Pope feel about Tolkien?


34 posted on 07/13/2005 6:52:22 AM PDT by P-Marlowe
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To: dsc
I wouldn't put too much stock in this article. Sounds like this Kuby lady sent her book to then-Cardinal Ratzinger. Card. Ratzinger or an aide of his wrote something to the effect of "thanks for the book, sometimes things effect kids and we don't notice it."

Then this man Michael O'Brien goes to LifeSite making a huge issue out of it. While I respect LifeSite, I really wouldn't accept any conclusions before reading accounts of this in a few more sources. If Cardinal Ratzinger really believed Harry Potter was harmful, why wouldn't he have addressed it himself, instead of just giving permission for others to pass along his thoughts on the matter?
42 posted on 07/13/2005 7:33:46 AM PDT by Dancing Jane
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To: dsc

I am so glad to see this article!


43 posted on 07/13/2005 7:35:10 AM PDT by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: dsc

Kinda makes me feel better that we don't read Rowling in our house.


69 posted on 07/13/2005 8:24:17 AM PDT by sitetest (If Roe is not overturned, no unborn child will ever be protected in law.)
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To: Dr. Eckleburg; Corin Stormhands; P-Marlowe

Ping to article.

Interesting reasoning on Ratzinger's part. What do you think?


71 posted on 07/13/2005 8:27:24 AM PDT by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It!)
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To: dsc

My spouse and I have seen the movies and mildly enjoyed them. We read the first book to educate ourselves on the subject, since there was so much contention about it in Christian circles.

Our conclusion: we enjoyed the stories, but wouldn't allow our children to see them (or read the books). The fantasy part doesn't bother us much, nor does the magic, since we are adults, Christians, and firmly rooted in our faith. It is fantasy and make-believe to us, and we're not corrupted by it.

One of the biggest problems we have is that the Harry Potter books teach children that adults are stupid, and children should disobey them.

The other problem we have is that the books have desensitized people (and children) to the occult.

Case in point: In a HP display at Barnes & Noble we saw a book called "Spells for Children". Contained inside: directions for performing real wiccan spells!

I also find the enormous CRAZE for these books to be very disturbing and suspicious. Full grown women are forming chat groups to discuss the book (presumably regarding their children's interest).

The books are interesting, but they're not that great. I'll take The Lion The Witch and The Wardrobe any day.


75 posted on 07/13/2005 8:35:38 AM PDT by halieus (The very idea of freedom presupposes some objective moral law which overarches rulers & ruled alike.)
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To: dsc

"Tempest in a teapot"


91 posted on 07/13/2005 8:47:40 AM PDT by verity (Big Dick Durbin is still a POS)
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To: All
WOW! This may be the first time that I am in any way in disagreement with B-16. As for some of the comments I have been reading on here all I can say is some of you desperately need to get a life.
99 posted on 07/13/2005 8:54:31 AM PDT by jec1ny (Adjutorium nostrum in nomine Domine Qui fecit caelum et terram.)
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To: dsc; All

I'm a Christian and I don't have any problem with having an occasional beer.

There are lots of Christians who disagree with me on this subject.

I might disagree with their assesment, but it doesn't bother me that their beliefs differ from mine. I'd happily debate the topic with them if asked. I'm very secure in my beliefs and my convictions. Hence, their opposing convictions don't upset me in the least.

So I have to wonder: why are so of you HP defenders so angry and nasty? I can't quite figure it out.


111 posted on 07/13/2005 9:10:21 AM PDT by halieus (The very idea of freedom presupposes some objective moral law which overarches rulers & ruled alike.)
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To: dsc; et al

It seems odd to me that all the code words/phrases such as ....

"subtle seductions, which act unnoticed"

are used frequently by religious institutions...

I am a believer in God, but find this kind of thing exactly the reason why I am not a regular church attender...

When there is a listing of all things that God forbids and linking those to Harry Potter seems that someone loses sight of the fact that this is fantasy fiction. The same with Tolkien.

Bottom line is that Rowling, and Tolkien were good story-tellers, and should be read in the same light that any other story teller is read.

If a person is solid and comfortable with his own beleifs, then he won't be upset with Harry flying a broom and casting spells with the help of talking owls.

If Harry upsets somebody then maybe they are not so sure of their beliefs, because Harry awakens those doubts.

Maybe people see God as remote and far away, instead of all around close and everywhere...

In some cases is it possible God makes His presence known by what we call {gasp} magic?

Harry is fiction. His acts are fiction. Remember it is just a story.


126 posted on 07/13/2005 9:25:57 AM PDT by BigEdLB (BigEd)
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To: dsc

Most interesting.


145 posted on 07/13/2005 10:11:19 AM PDT by Ciexyz (Let us always remember, the Lord is in control.)
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To: dsc

DOH!

I have some respect for the new pope, even though I'm not Catholic, but this is just stupid.


224 posted on 07/13/2005 1:34:07 PM PDT by zbigreddogz
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To: dsc

OK I think we should be talking Impeachement of Pope BennyHinn


273 posted on 07/13/2005 4:06:49 PM PDT by Oztrich Boy (well you asked!)
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To: dsc

As a Christian I don't see the Harry Potter books as a "threat to Christianity", what I think threating are the choices we make in life in regards to our surrender to Christ and our walking in faith.


348 posted on 07/13/2005 11:36:44 PM PDT by Quinotto (On matters of style,swim with the current,on matters of principle stand like a rock-Thomas Jefferson)
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