Posted on 01/28/2005 3:15:12 AM PST by paudio
The Rolling Stone Magazine reversed its decision not to air an advertisement for the Today’s New International Version (TNIV) of the Bible earlier this week, but the Southern Baptist Convention (SBC)-affiliated Lifeway Christian Resources has not yet changed its decision to keep the edition out of its 122 bookstores because of the version’s gender-neutral translations.
The controversy over the International Bible Society (IBS) and Zondervan Publishing House’s TNIV began in 2002 when initial publishing began. Fundamentals and evangelicals rejected the version’s rendering of male terms like “son” and “father” into the gender neutral “child” and “parent”, respectively.
By the year’s end, two of the nation’s largest evangelical denominations, the SBC and the Presbyterian Church in America (PCA), passed resolutions establishing that the TNIV has “gone beyond acceptable translation standards.”
“Although it is possible for Bible scholars to disagree about translation methods or which English words best translate the original languages, the TNIV has gone beyond acceptable translation standards,” a part of the SBC’s 2002 Resolution 4 read. “This translation alters the meaning of hundreds of verses, most significantly by erasing gender-specific details which appear in the original language.”
Resolution 4 expressed “profound disappointment” with the IBS and Zondervan, and further resolved that “Lifeway not make this inaccurate translation available for sale in their bookstores.”
Lifeway’s spokesman Rob Phillips said Lifeway has not had the chance to review the full Bible yet, but does not have plans to stock it.
The TNIV is set to be released next week.
Under most circumstances, the difference between "you" and "thou" is irrelevant to the meaning someone takes away from the passage. Rare indeed is the person who does exegesis to such a degree of precision that requires differentiating between the pronouns.
This is a minor anachronism. If it were just thees and thous, the KJV would still be servicable. But quote to the average English-speaking person, "Suffer the little children to come unto me," and they'll wonder what the hoo-hah you're talking about. Most people don't know that in Jacobean English, "to suffer" means "to allow," or that "meet" means "acceptable." Frankly, I don't care if people know Jacobean English or not. It's old, the language has evolved, and there are equally good or better translations on the market. Our job as Christians is not to teach the world the wonders of 17th-century English, but rather the Gospel. There's no way I'll allow linguistic archaicisms get in the way of the message of the Gospel.
Substituting a gender neutral term when the term from the text is gender neutral isn't that big a deal, although in English it makes the reading clunky. "He or she or it went to the store. The difficulty with this translation is that it substitutes gender neutral terms where gender specific terms were used in the original text.
The problem with many of the new translations, and there are a ton of them out there now, is that the translators openly bring their own agenda into the mix. Many of them also view the scriptures as a kind of Aesop's fable, which should be modified to sell current philosophical thinking.
I have always liked the New American Standard, but one thing I noticed was that they cleaned up several Old Testament passages, which were actually pretty rough in the original texts. For example, in threatening a city, David stated that he would kill any male that could piss on a wall. This was a pretty direct threat that any male that wasn't a baby in it's mother's arms would be killed. The NASB alters that text. While I understand the desires of the translators to avoid offending people, and have honestly never heard a preacher read the original King James text of that passage from the pulpit, this type of modification of the original is inherently destructive to the teaching of Scripture.
But they can use them, regardless of their being anachronistic, they are still valid English words that are 2nd person personal or otherwise.
And, we can still read them and understand them just as well if you try.
There is much disinfomation concerning the King James on this subject. If a person just reads it, they can understand it.
Even in High School, I had to read Beowulf in middle English, and that is WAY older than King James English, yet we were expected to understand it.
All you need to do is read it.
And if you have a problem with the word SUFFER instead of permit, or allow, then re-write the Kng James and change those words...THE SAME WAY PEOPLE HAVE BEEN DOING SINCE 1611 anyways!
did you get that last part?
WE DONT HAVE A 1611 KING JAMES ANYMORE and havent since 1630!
"In a world of almost endless media noise and polical spin, you wonder where you can find real truth. Well now there's a source that's accurate, clear and reliable. It's the TNIV - Today's New International Version of the Bible. It's written in today's language, for oday's times--and it makes more sense than ever."
Am I the only one who finds the implications of this ad VERY disturbing? It is saying that past versions of the Bible WERE NOT accurate, clear and reliable.
I know that no one knows the day or the hour of His return, but more and more, this world seems to be nearing the end.
thank God for the SBC & PCA (NOT to be confused with PCUSA).
"Our Father in heaven,"
Maybe "Our caregiver" in heaven?
***Not only that, some other translations called mother Mary " a young maiden " and the KJV calls mother MARY a " Young Virgin "...We can only wonder WHO is promoting that new Bible version TNIV.***
From the TNIV*
Matthew 1:22,23:
All this took place to fulfill what the Lord had said through the prophet: "The virgin will conceive and give birth to a son, and they will call him Immanuel" (which means "God with us").
Luke 1:26,27:
In the sixth month of Elizabeth's pregnacy, God sent the angel Gabriel to Nazareth, a town in Galilee, to a virgin pledged to be married to a man named Joseph, a descendant of David. The virgin's name was Mary.
In the following verses we have the Word of Jesus by the Apostles and prophets of Jesus Christ
>>>The Word is sent from the Father through the Son.
John 12:48-50 48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day. 49 For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak. 50 And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.
>>>The Son gave the Word to the Apostles
John 14:26 26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
John 15:26-27 26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me: 27 And ye also shall bear witness, because ye have been with me from the beginning.
John 15:26 - 16:1 26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me: 27 And ye also shall bear witness, because ye have been with me from the beginning.
>>> The Father gave the Word to the Son was throught the Holy Spirit to the Apostles.
John 16:13 13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.
>>>The Word from the Father to the Son by the Apostles through the Holy Spirit is given to us.
The word given to the apostles.
John 17:6 6 I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word.
John 17:9 9 I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine.
John 17:14 14 I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.
John 17:17 17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.
The written Word given to us through the Apostles
John 17:20-23 20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word; 21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. 22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one: 23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.
http://www.wordworx.co.nz/panin.html
http://www.thehypertexts.com/Ivan_Panin_Bible_Codes_Mathematical_Signature.htm
Excellent read.... "A Woman Rides The Beast" - Dave Hunt
Shalom
Fascinating BellStar!
Thanks!
Is this it?
Deuteronomy 32:10-12 (KJV)
10He found him in a desert land, and in the waste howling wilderness; he led him about, he instructed him, he kept him as the apple of his eye.
11As an eagle stirreth up her nest, fluttereth over her young, spreadeth abroad her wings, taketh them, beareth them on her wings:
12So the LORD alone did lead him, and there was no strange god with him.
Deuteronomy 32:10-12 (TNIV*)
10 In a desert land he found him,
in a barren and howling waste.
He shielded him and cared for him;
he guarded him as the apple of his eye,
11 like an eagle that stirs up its nest
and hovers over its young,
that spreads its wings to catch them
and carries them aloft.
12 The Lord alone led him;
no foreign god was with him.
Thanks for the discussion - I love your example. I'll have to look for it later. Vivid language helps keep the family's attention :-).
I think we're in agreement that interpretation is not the same as the actual words of the Scriptures.
If not ... well, that happens :-).
Our Parent, who art "up there", your name is pretty neat, may your Paradise be established on earth so that we may have pleasures 24/7, because you want only the best for us, here and wherever we go after we pass on. Give us all we want, and forgive us for what we have to do to get it, and don't let us feel too guilty about stuffing the bas**ards who do it to us to get theirs.
Take away all stumbling blocks from our paths as we dance our way to prosperity, For you're the One, Higher Being, You're the One.
One of the LXX was St. Symeon (as Jude24 notes, the work was done around 200-150 BC). This translation of the original Hebrew into Greek has special meaning for those of us who are Orthodox because God would not allow St. Symeon to die until he received Christ into the temple.
St. Symeon's prayer is said near the end of every Orthodox vespers service (evening)), (Lk 2:29-32)
Lord, now lettest thou thy servant depart in peace, according to thy word: 2:30 For mine eyes have seen thy salvation, 2:31 Which thou hast prepared before the face of all people; 2:32 A light to lighten the Gentiles, and the glory of thy people Israel.
The New Revised Standard Version (NRSV) has the exact same problems. Scriptural meaning has been changed in dozens of places in order to be politically correct and gender neutral.
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