THE PING!Posted on 08/12/2004 10:41:10 AM PDT by sidewalk
BRIELLE, N.J. -- An 8-year-old girl who suffers from a rare digestive disorder and cannot consume wheat has had her first Holy Communion declared invalid because the wafer contained none, violating Catholic doctrine. Now, Haley Waldman's mother is pushing the Diocese of Trenton and the Vatican to make an exception, saying the girl's condition _ celiac sprue disease _ should not exclude her from participating in the sacrament, in which Roman Catholics eat consecrated wheat-based wafers to commemorate the last supper of Jesus Christ before his crucifixion.
(Excerpt) Read more at newsday.com ...
5.56mm
=== It is startling what kids are allergic too and can't eat.
Seriously ... what is it with kids today?
Is it the formula? the failure to breastfeed? the pre-packaged food or what?
If this is how our "natural" children are turning out, I fear to think what a generation or two of "genuine" Artificials is going to do to the gene pool.
Venturing a guess -- anti-biotics run amok.
If the mother new her faith she would never ask the Church to profane the most important thing in the world. We are talking about a miracle that happens at each mass, not something we own that may be manipulate to suit our desires.
THE PING!Ooooh, I'd forgotten about that ... good guess.
I don't think it should be forgotten that those who eat a great deal of red meat (fast food) probably get even more antibiotic runoff than usual.
I worked a Hazmat toxic emission case once concerning a bovine vitamin plant. Quite an eye-opener.
And not a lot of difference, when you think about it, in the chemicals and agents applied to both cattle and children who are reared en masse in tight quarters rather than free-range herd or with at-home mothers, respectively.
"Where does it say that in the bible?"
Before I answer that, WHY can't you explain to me why Christ, on the cross, told the thief that he would be in paradise with Christ, that day? Was Jesus lying? The thief did NOT have Communion or perform any rituals. He was on the cross dying and Christ saw his HEART and saw he was sincere; that's why.
Your suggesting that rituals save you is wrong. NO ritual saves anyone. In fact Jesus was disgusted with people blindly following rituals when there HEART was not with God. It's called hypocrisy.
TO answer your question, this is a TINY smattering of verses illustrating how important the HEART is - above rituals. There are many more verse that validate this bu this should get you thinking. Read the book of Hebrews as well. It's commonly referred to as the Hall of Faith since RITUALS did NOT save anyone - their heart was filled with FAITH.
Anyway here are SOME verses. MORE are in the Bible.
Matt.5:8
[8] Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God.
Matt.6:22
[21] For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.
Matt.15:8,18,19
[8] This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.
[18] But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man.
[19] For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies:
In case you didn't know, Matt. 22:37 is the MOST IMPORTANT COMMANDEMNT not whether you take Communion or not.
Matt.22:37
[37] Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
Again, this is a COMMANDMENT - the most IMPORTANT COMMANMENT
Mark.12:30
[30] And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.
Luke.5:22
[22] But when Jesus perceived their thoughts, he answering said unto them, What reason ye in your hearts?
Luke.6:45
[45] A good man out of the good treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is good; and an evil man out of the evil treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is evil: for of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaketh.
Luke.10:27
[27] And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself.
Luke.12:34
[34] For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.
Luke.16:15
[15] And he said unto them, Ye are they which justify yourselves before men; but God knoweth your hearts: for that which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God.
Luke.24:25.32.38.40
[25] Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken:
[32] And they said one to another, Did not our heart burn within us, while he talked with us by the way, and while he opened to us the scriptures?
[38] And he said unto them, Why are ye troubled? and why do thoughts arise in your hearts?
John.12
[40] He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.
John.13:2
[2] And supper being ended, the devil having now put into the heart of Judas Iscariot, Simon's son, to betray him;
It's ALL about the HEART and FAITH - NOT RITUALS!
John.14:1,27
[1] Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.
[27] Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you: not as the world giveth, give I unto you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid.
John.16:6,22
[6] But because I have said these things unto you, sorrow hath filled your heart.
[22] And ye now therefore have sorrow: but I will see you again, and your heart shall rejoice, and your joy no man taketh from you.
Acts.1:24, 26, 37,46
[24] And they prayed, and said, Thou, Lord, which knowest the hearts of all men, shew whether of these two thou hast chosen,
Acts.2
[26] Therefore did my heart rejoice, and my tongue was glad; moreover also my flesh shall rest in hope:
[37] Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
[46] And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart,
Acts.4:32
[32] And the multitude of them that believed were of one heart and of one soul: neither said any of them that ought of the things which he possessed was his own; but they had all things common.
Acts.5:3,4,33,23,39,51, 54
[3] But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land?
[4] Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God.
[33] When they heard that, they were cut to the heart, and took counsel to slay them.
Acts.7
[23] And when he was full forty years old, it came into his heart to visit his brethren the children of Israel.
[39] To whom our fathers would not obey, but thrust him from them, and in their hearts turned back again into Egypt,
[51] Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye.
[54] When they heard these things, they were cut to the heart, and they gnashed on him with their teeth.
Acts.8:21,22,37
[21] Thou hast neither part nor lot in this matter: for thy heart is not right in the sight of God.
[22] Repent therefore of this thy wickedness, and pray God, if perhaps the thought of thine heart may be forgiven thee.
[37] And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.
Acts.11:23
[23] Who, when he came, and had seen the grace of God, was glad, and exhorted them all, that with purpose of heart they would cleave unto the Lord.
Acts.13:22
[22] And when he had removed him, he raised up unto them David to be their king; to whom also he gave testimony, and said, I have found David the son of Jesse, a man after mine own heart, which shall fulfil all my will.
Acts.14:17
[17] Nevertheless he left not himself without witness, in that he did good, and gave us rain from heaven, and fruitful seasons, filling our hearts with food and gladness.
Acts.15:8,9
[8] And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us;
[9] And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.
Acts.16:14
[14] And a certain woman named Lydia, a seller of purple, of the city of Thyatira, which worshipped God, heard us: whose heart the Lord opened, that she attended unto the things which were spoken of Paul.
Acts.21:13
[13] Then Paul answered, What mean ye to weep and to break mine heart? for I am ready not to be bound only, but also to die at Jerusalem for the name of the Lord Jesus.
Acts.28:27
[27] For the heart of this people is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes have they closed; lest they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.
Rom.1:21,24
[21] Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
[24] Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
Rom.2:5,15,29
[5] But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;
[15] Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;)
[29] But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.
Did you catch that? Circumcism of the HEART - in the SPIRIT! Not in the LETTER (of the Law)!
Rom.5:5
[5] And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.
Rom.6:17
[17] But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.
Rom.8:27
[27] And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.
Rom.9:2
[2] That I have great heaviness and continual sorrow in my heart.
Rom.10:1,6,8,9
[1] Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved.
[6] But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above:)
[8] But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
[9] That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
"Venturing a guess -- anti-biotics run amok."
That, and also mass immunization programmes.
By swamping young children's immune systems with unnaturally high concentrations of viral antigens at a young age, it is not surprising that across the population auto-immune problems should start increasing.
And then, of course, there is Prozac in the drinking water in some places....
{:- (
Oh I've heard the arguments before, but I am immune, since Jesus Christ came to bring sinners GRACE...UNDESERVED FAVOR, I don't worry too much, all the debates have been settled here. I never argue, just interject MHO...lol
No, you don't get it. You're arrogant, hostile, and theologically ignorant. If you were not, you would not so aggressively attack a major dogma of the Catholic faith. People like you should stick to making daisy banners and singing Kumbaya. That about sums up your spirituality.
"And then, of course, there is Prozac in the drinking water in some places....
{:- ("
LOL! or not, as the case may be!
It might explain why my children never want to go to bed!
Jesus said "beware the leaven of the Pharisees, a little leaven leavens a whole..., etc"....get it. Jesus knew what those religious arguments would do to people..so we are to avoid that stuff and remember the simplicity of the gospel...Jesus died for our sins, and we will go to heaven when we accept him and repent...very simple,not complicated.
See. If she takes 'consecrated' invalid matter, then she is not participating in Communion. But if you drink the Lord's Blood, you are also getting His body. If you drink the Lord's Body, you also get His Blood. It is the WHOLE Lord, entire, soul and divinity under both species. THAT IS THE POINT PEOPLE!!! She can just take the Blood. Nobody is being denied anything. She is not out of luck! Her mother is simply being anal retentive. And saying: NO. My child is SPECIAL. You bend the rules for HER.
You're arrogant, hostile, and theologically ignorant."
Nope. Point out what I've said that's wrong. There's nothing that can be proven right until we die and find out, something you fail to grasp.
"you would not so aggressively attack a major dogma of the Catholic faith. "
Wheat is a major dogma of the Catholic faith?
"People like you should stick to making daisy banners and singing Kumbaya. That about sums up your spirituality."
Pass. I do admire your rush to judgment, your quick fuse, and weak insults, as it's typical of the pious and ignorant. Way to live up to the stereotype!
ROFL, do you actually believe Jesus would deny the communion of an innocent 8 yr old who has a wheat allergy problem???? That is absurd. Jesus said "it would be better that millstone be hung around someone's neck and they be dropped in water and drown than hurt one of these little one's" My Jesus don't think like that, nope, I do not buy it...not now, not ever. The flour is not the important issue, remembering Jesus sacrifice of blood and body is the key to communion.
Next, I read my Bible regularly, study it, take classes on it, pray daily and I am an intercessor. I pray to God and Holy Spirit deals with me on issues to pray about. I'm sure if the wheat was a big deal he would have mentioned it to me at some point in past 25 yrs...but he hasn't. Therefore since His Presence is clearly with me and my prayers are getting answered, I don't think I would have missed that important point. But if you want to concentrate on those things instead of "communion with Holy Spirit, be my guest". To each his own.
You: Mark 16,16: "Whoever believes AND IS BAPTISED will be saved; whoever does not believe will be condemned."
Me: Yes who does not BELIEVE will be condemned. It is NOT saying if you are baptised you are saved and if you are NOT baptised you are NOT saved. Baptisim does NOT save anyone. It IS BELIEF that SAVES; NOT RITUALS.
YOU: John: "If you would love me keep my commandments."
Yes, if we love Him we shour try out best to keep His commandments. Baptism is NOT a Commandment. You are mixing things up. Commandments are NOT rituals. These are the Ten Commandments:
"a) Jesus commands the ritual for our salvation."
No, He does NOT.
"b) Those who reject it are disobedient to Christ."
Those who reject BELIEF are disobedient to Christ.
"c) Those who are unrepentent in their disobedience do not love Christ and will not be saved."
I agree with c.
"Disobedience is at the heart of man's rebellion against God. Pray for the grace of obedience for yourself and this stroppy mother - if, in fact, she is a real person and not just some figment concocted to fill the gaps in the media's silly season."
Rejection of Authroity is the heart of disobedience or rebellion. I'm not following the rest of you thoughts ... so I'll ignore it.
About legitimate Commandments, below are some conversations with Christ speaking:
[13] Then were there brought unto him little children, that he should put his hands on them, and pray: and the disciples rebuked them.
[14] But Jesus said, Suffer little children, and forbid them not, to come unto me: for of such is the kingdom of heaven.
[15] And he laid his hands on them, and departed thence.
[16] And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
[17] And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
[18] He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,
[19] Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
[20] The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet?
[21] Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.
[22] But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful: for he had great possessions.
[23] Then said Jesus unto his disciples, Verily I say unto you, That a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven.
[24] And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.
[25] When his disciples heard it, they were exceedingly amazed, saying, Who then can be saved?
[26] But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible.
[27] Then answered Peter and said unto him, Behold, we have forsaken all, and followed thee; what shall we have therefore?
[28] And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
[29] And every one that hath forsaken houses, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my name's sake, shall receive an hundredfold, and shall inherit everlasting life.
[30] But many that are first shall be last; and the last shall be first.
This is what Christ is saying about COmmandments and how they affect eternal life.
Speaking of COmmandments this is the most important one:
Matt.22:35-40
[35] Then one of them, which was a lawyer, asked him a question, tempting him, and saying,
[36] Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
[37] Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
[38] This is the first and great commandment.
[39] And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
[40] On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.
Mark.12:28-31
[28] And one of the scribes came, and having heard them reasoning together, and perceiving that he had answered them well, asked him, Which is the first commandment of all?
[29] And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:
[30] And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.
[31] And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.
Luke.10:26-28
[26] He said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou?
[27] And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself.
[28] And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live.
How many times does Christ have to highlight the HEART?
There is NOTHING you can DO to earn eternal life. Eternal life is not rewarded through WORKS such as by Baptism or Communion.
No, the key is Tradition itself and the authority of the Church to determine these matters. Much of what Jesus intended was not incorporated into Scripture, but was transmitted orally by the apostles and then the Church Fathers and so on.
Cutting and pasting for Jesus is so 70s.
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