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To: Tantumergo

You: Mark 16,16: "Whoever believes AND IS BAPTISED will be saved; whoever does not believe will be condemned."

Me: Yes who does not BELIEVE will be condemned. It is NOT saying if you are baptised you are saved and if you are NOT baptised you are NOT saved. Baptisim does NOT save anyone. It IS BELIEF that SAVES; NOT RITUALS.

YOU: John: "If you would love me keep my commandments."

Yes, if we love Him we shour try out best to keep His commandments. Baptism is NOT a Commandment. You are mixing things up. Commandments are NOT rituals. These are the Ten Commandments:



"a) Jesus commands the ritual for our salvation."

No, He does NOT.

"b) Those who reject it are disobedient to Christ."

Those who reject BELIEF are disobedient to Christ.

"c) Those who are unrepentent in their disobedience do not love Christ and will not be saved."

I agree with c.

"Disobedience is at the heart of man's rebellion against God. Pray for the grace of obedience for yourself and this stroppy mother - if, in fact, she is a real person and not just some figment concocted to fill the gaps in the media's silly season."

Rejection of Authroity is the heart of disobedience or rebellion. I'm not following the rest of you thoughts ... so I'll ignore it.

About legitimate Commandments, below are some conversations with Christ speaking:

[13] Then were there brought unto him little children, that he should put his hands on them, and pray: and the disciples rebuked them.
[14] But Jesus said, Suffer little children, and forbid them not, to come unto me: for of such is the kingdom of heaven.
[15] And he laid his hands on them, and departed thence.
[16] And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
[17] And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
[18] He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,
[19] Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
[20] The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet?
[21] Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.
[22] But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful: for he had great possessions.
[23] Then said Jesus unto his disciples, Verily I say unto you, That a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven.
[24] And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.
[25] When his disciples heard it, they were exceedingly amazed, saying, Who then can be saved?
[26] But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible.
[27] Then answered Peter and said unto him, Behold, we have forsaken all, and followed thee; what shall we have therefore?
[28] And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
[29] And every one that hath forsaken houses, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my name's sake, shall receive an hundredfold, and shall inherit everlasting life.
[30] But many that are first shall be last; and the last shall be first.

This is what Christ is saying about COmmandments and how they affect eternal life.

Speaking of COmmandments this is the most important one:

Matt.22:35-40

[35] Then one of them, which was a lawyer, asked him a question, tempting him, and saying,

[36] Master, which is the great commandment in the law?

[37] Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.

[38] This is the first and great commandment.

[39] And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

[40] On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.


Mark.12:28-31

[28] And one of the scribes came, and having heard them reasoning together, and perceiving that he had answered them well, asked him, Which is the first commandment of all?

[29] And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:

[30] And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.

[31] And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.




Luke.10:26-28

[26] He said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou?

[27] And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself.

[28] And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live.

How many times does Christ have to highlight the HEART?

There is NOTHING you can DO to earn eternal life. Eternal life is not rewarded through WORKS such as by Baptism or Communion.


318 posted on 08/12/2004 5:55:20 PM PDT by nmh (Intelligent people recognize Intelligent Design (God).)
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To: nmh

Cutting and pasting for Jesus is so 70s.


320 posted on 08/12/2004 5:57:22 PM PDT by Maeve (Oh Mary, conceived without sin, pray for us who have recourse to thee!)
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To: nmh

"[37] Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.

[38] This is the first and great commandment."

And so when God says "Do this as my memoriam", and you fail to do this because you think you know better than He does what he really meant - how exactly are you loving God with all your heart, all your soul and all your mind?


328 posted on 08/12/2004 6:24:01 PM PDT by Tantumergo
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