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To: american colleen

"Where does it say that in the bible?"

Before I answer that, WHY can't you explain to me why Christ, on the cross, told the thief that he would be in paradise with Christ, that day? Was Jesus lying? The thief did NOT have Communion or perform any rituals. He was on the cross dying and Christ saw his HEART and saw he was sincere; that's why.

Your suggesting that rituals save you is wrong. NO ritual saves anyone. In fact Jesus was disgusted with people blindly following rituals when there HEART was not with God. It's called hypocrisy.

TO answer your question, this is a TINY smattering of verses illustrating how important the HEART is - above rituals. There are many more verse that validate this bu this should get you thinking. Read the book of Hebrews as well. It's commonly referred to as the Hall of Faith since RITUALS did NOT save anyone - their heart was filled with FAITH.

Anyway here are SOME verses. MORE are in the Bible.



Matt.5:8
[8] Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God.

Matt.6:22
[21] For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.

Matt.15:8,18,19
[8] This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.

[18] But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man.

[19] For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies:

In case you didn't know, Matt. 22:37 is the MOST IMPORTANT COMMANDEMNT not whether you take Communion or not.

Matt.22:37
[37] Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.

Again, this is a COMMANDMENT - the most IMPORTANT COMMANMENT

Mark.12:30
[30] And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.

Luke.5:22
[22] But when Jesus perceived their thoughts, he answering said unto them, What reason ye in your hearts?

Luke.6:45
[45] A good man out of the good treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is good; and an evil man out of the evil treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is evil: for of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaketh.

Luke.10:27
[27] And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself.

Luke.12:34
[34] For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.

Luke.16:15
[15] And he said unto them, Ye are they which justify yourselves before men; but God knoweth your hearts: for that which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God.

Luke.24:25.32.38.40
[25] Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken:
[32] And they said one to another, Did not our heart burn within us, while he talked with us by the way, and while he opened to us the scriptures?
[38] And he said unto them, Why are ye troubled? and why do thoughts arise in your hearts?
John.12
[40] He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.


John.13:2
[2] And supper being ended, the devil having now put into the heart of Judas Iscariot, Simon's son, to betray him;

It's ALL about the HEART and FAITH - NOT RITUALS!

John.14:1,27
[1] Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.
[27] Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you: not as the world giveth, give I unto you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid.

John.16:6,22
[6] But because I have said these things unto you, sorrow hath filled your heart.
[22] And ye now therefore have sorrow: but I will see you again, and your heart shall rejoice, and your joy no man taketh from you.

Acts.1:24, 26, 37,46
[24] And they prayed, and said, Thou, Lord, which knowest the hearts of all men, shew whether of these two thou hast chosen,
Acts.2
[26] Therefore did my heart rejoice, and my tongue was glad; moreover also my flesh shall rest in hope:
[37] Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
[46] And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart,


Acts.4:32
[32] And the multitude of them that believed were of one heart and of one soul: neither said any of them that ought of the things which he possessed was his own; but they had all things common.

Acts.5:3,4,33,23,39,51, 54
[3] But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land?
[4] Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God.
[33] When they heard that, they were cut to the heart, and took counsel to slay them.
Acts.7
[23] And when he was full forty years old, it came into his heart to visit his brethren the children of Israel.
[39] To whom our fathers would not obey, but thrust him from them, and in their hearts turned back again into Egypt,
[51] Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye.
[54] When they heard these things, they were cut to the heart, and they gnashed on him with their teeth.


Acts.8:21,22,37
[21] Thou hast neither part nor lot in this matter: for thy heart is not right in the sight of God.
[22] Repent therefore of this thy wickedness, and pray God, if perhaps the thought of thine heart may be forgiven thee.
[37] And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.


Acts.11:23
[23] Who, when he came, and had seen the grace of God, was glad, and exhorted them all, that with purpose of heart they would cleave unto the Lord.

Acts.13:22
[22] And when he had removed him, he raised up unto them David to be their king; to whom also he gave testimony, and said, I have found David the son of Jesse, a man after mine own heart, which shall fulfil all my will.

Acts.14:17
[17] Nevertheless he left not himself without witness, in that he did good, and gave us rain from heaven, and fruitful seasons, filling our hearts with food and gladness.

Acts.15:8,9
[8] And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us;

[9] And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.

Acts.16:14
[14] And a certain woman named Lydia, a seller of purple, of the city of Thyatira, which worshipped God, heard us: whose heart the Lord opened, that she attended unto the things which were spoken of Paul.

Acts.21:13
[13] Then Paul answered, What mean ye to weep and to break mine heart? for I am ready not to be bound only, but also to die at Jerusalem for the name of the Lord Jesus.

Acts.28:27
[27] For the heart of this people is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes have they closed; lest they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

Rom.1:21,24
[21] Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
[24] Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:

Rom.2:5,15,29
[5] But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;
[15] Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;)
[29] But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

Did you catch that? Circumcism of the HEART - in the SPIRIT! Not in the LETTER (of the Law)!




Rom.5:5
[5] And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.

Rom.6:17
[17] But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.

Rom.8:27
[27] And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.

Rom.9:2
[2] That I have great heaviness and continual sorrow in my heart.

Rom.10:1,6,8,9
[1] Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved.
[6] But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above:)
[8] But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
[9] That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.


308 posted on 08/12/2004 5:28:47 PM PDT by nmh (Intelligent people recognize Intelligent Design (God).)
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To: nmh

In the future, could you just post a link to the King James Bible, so I can go blindly interpret it for myself, deny any Revelation from God and instead rely upon my own opinion, and formulate my own religion in the image of my rationale like you have so done? Thanks.


336 posted on 08/12/2004 7:09:50 PM PDT by Fifthmark
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To: nmh
Before I answer that, WHY can't you explain to me why Christ, on the cross, told the thief that he would be in paradise with Christ, that day?

Because Jesus can do anything he wants to do. Period.

Your suggesting that rituals save you is wrong.

Oh Yikes! Your suggestion that I suggested rituals save you is wrong, wrong, wrong. I suggested nothing of the sort. Of course rituals don't save you.

Thanks, but please don't cut and paste bible verses out of context in order to support your interpretation. Why waste the bandwith? I have about 7 different bibles in my house and the internet for the translations I don't possess. And I like reading in context for the entire meaning.

Faith is obedience, is it not? Do you consider the 10 Commandments to be 'rituals' or baptism as a 'ritual"?

342 posted on 08/12/2004 7:44:32 PM PDT by american colleen
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To: nmh
The thief did NOT have Communion or perform any rituals.
Whether a man can be saved without Baptism? ... Secondly, the sacrament of Baptism may be wanting to anyone in reality but not in desire: for instance, when a man wishes to be baptized, but by some ill-chance he is forestalled by death before receiving Baptism. And such a man can obtain salvation without being actually baptized, on account of his desire for Baptism, which desire is the outcome of "faith that worketh by charity," whereby God, Whose power is not tied to visible sacraments, sanctifies man inwardly. (St. Thomas Aquinas, Summa Theologiae q. 68 a. 2)

Whether the Eucharist is necessary for salvation? ... the reality of the sacrament is the unity of the mystical body, without which there can be no salvation; for there is no entering into salvation outside the Church, just as in the time of the deluge there was none outside the Ark, which denotes the Church, according to 1 Pt. 3:20,21. And it has been said above (68, 2), that before receiving a sacrament, the reality of the sacrament can be had through the very desire of receiving the sacrament. Accordingly, before actual reception of this sacrament, a man can obtain salvation through the desire of receiving it, just as he can before Baptism through the desire of Baptism ... (ST III q. 73 a. 3)

NO ritual saves anyone.

(not by works that [are] in righteousness that we did but according to His kindness,) He did save us, through a bathing of regeneration, and a renewing of the Holy Spirit, (Titus 3:5)

350 posted on 08/12/2004 8:07:20 PM PDT by gbcdoj
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