Posted on 05/14/2004 10:17:14 AM PDT by Campion
VATICAN CITY (Reuters) - The Vatican (news - web sites) warned Catholic women on Friday to think hard before marrying a Muslim and urged Muslims to show more respect for human rights, gender equality and democracy.
Calling women "the least protected member of the Muslim family," it spoke of the "bitter experience" western Catholics had with Muslim husbands, especially if they married outside the Islamic world and later moved to his country of origin.
The comments in a document about migrants around the world were preceded by remarks about points of agreement between Christians and Muslims but they seemed likely to fuel mistrust between the world's two largest religions.
The document said the Church discouraged marriages between believers in traditionally Catholic countries and non-Christian migrants.
It hoped Muslims would show "a growing awareness that fundamental liberties, the inviolable rights of the person, the equal dignity of man and woman, the democratic principle of government and the healthy lay character of the state are principles that cannot be surrendered."
When a Catholic woman and Muslim man wanted to marry, it said, "bitter experience teaches us that a particularly careful and in-depth preparation is called for."
It said one possible problem was with Muslim in-laws and advised future mothers that they must insist on Church policy that children born of a mixed marriage be baptized and brought up as Catholics.
If the marriage is registered in the consulate of a Muslim country, the document said, the Catholic must be careful not to sign a document or swear an oath including the shahada, the Islamic profession of faith, which would amount to converting.
DIFFERENT APPROACHES
The document highlighted the contrasting approaches the Vatican has taken in recent years toward Islam, which has emerged as a strong rival for souls, especially in Africa.
Pope John Paul (news - web sites) has broken ground in dialogue with Muslims and even prayed in a mosque in Damascus. He won plaudits in the Muslim world for his strong opposition to the Iraq (news - web sites) war.
But Vatican officials and leading Catholic prelates have expressed increasingly critical views about the spread of Islam and the challenge this poses for Catholicism.
The Vatican's top theologian, Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, said earlier this week the West "no longer loves itself" and so was unable to respond to the challenge of Islam, which was growing because it expressed "greater spiritual energy."
The migration document also discouraged churches from letting non-Christians use their places of worship.
This issue arose last month when Muslims in Spain asked to be able to pray in Cordoba cathedral, which was once a mosque. A senior Vatican official said this would be "problematic."
This must be some leap of deductive logic I'm not able to make.
Never dream of it. Pavel's a hero of mine.
The Catholic religion proved by the protestant bible:
http://www.olrl.org/apologetics/cathprot.shtml
Cognitive dissonance is the probable cause of your problem.
If a priest presides over an interfaith marriage, the Church "condones" the marriage.
This looks like the Catholic version of Chick Tracts. Do you really have to take our worst ideas?
And therby sent a mixed message to the faithful
What has happened that any Christian should even consider marrying a Muslim ?
You poor dear. It might be easier on you if you picked a field you knew more about - or better yet pick a non-Christian field for your missionary work.
Nothing gets our religious blood boiling like attacking others; and it's so much easier than doing the work to attract them on the merits of our own religion.
I'm not in the recruitment business.
Good thing, you'd go broke.
Love and sexual attraction will powerfully tempt you to do stupid things sometimes.
Some of them are cutting deals for immigration purposes. As peoples continue to intermingle in an accelerated manner, there will be more of it, to the eternal regret of many I suppose.
The Vatican warning is warranted, but few will heed it like other words of wisdom that emanate from that quarter.
I don't know why they don't draw on scripture more in their public pronouncements, but the catechism is backed up by lots of references to scripture so it isn't as if they don't regard it as important. That scripture you cited is especially appropos in this situation.
I would suggest if you have the time you go back and review the trails of threads leading up to this post. You'll find all of this started as a result of a Catholic post. As soon as someone post something contrary to what you believe it's considered an attack.
And, BTW, I don't think anything I've said was an attack. Many Catholics, including the Pope, have forsaken an evangelistic message for a message of appeasement. This is not an attack. This is fact as evidenced by some of these articles.
If you don't wish to take a Protestant word for it read some of the excellent posts by narses. At least some honorable Catholics in the Catholic Church have recognized this.
Me-"I'm not in the recruitment business."
You-"Good thing, you'd go broke."
It's up to God to use me if He so desires. I certainly wouldn't do it for profit.
There's lots of scriptures which could have been drawn upon. We all fail as Christians (especially me) in knowing the right thing to say at the right time. But one would hope our spiritual leaders could clearly articulate the Christian message through the written word.
I have found that confusing. No one is telling them that in order to be saved they must believe in Jesus Christ and not just as a prophet. Which is it, "no one can come unto the Father but by Me" or not calling them to conversion because it is proving to be all night but impossible in their cultic mindset.
I can understand the hope that by acting in a Christian manner, the pope may hope to draw others to Christianity. That much make sense and is a start. Still they are not being specifically told, amid countless opportunities, that they must believe in Jesus Christ as savior in order to be saved.
Unless in the end Jesus lets them in anyway, in which case I am not one to judge who is saved and who isn't.
Only protestants do that. Catholics and orthodox approach the matter a little differently. To be truthful, I don't know what gospel they preach. It used to be the gospel of membership in their church along with being at least being nominally catechized and the sacraments, which does presuppose correct belief in Jesus as savior.
The early Christians were converted through testimony and being pointed to a structured church (although more loosely structured than the monolithic western model we have now), baptism, sacraments, etc., with little drawing on the word because they didn't have a new testament as we know it now. I think, to be fair, they have tended to follow that model throughout history more than relying on the written word alone for purposes of conversion.
Drawing from the scriptures has gained a lot of converts since the invention of the printing press and the education of the masses who can read them for themselves as they were unable to do for centuries. It is fraught with some obvious difficulties as few are in absolute agreement about the scriptures really mean and how they should be correctly interpreted.
Personally, for now, I accept both systems of belief if one is doing the best they know how to follow Jesus and what they understand of his teachings.
As a Calvinist I do believe God's will, will be done no matter what our failings our. God will elect His chosen.
That being said we all have an obligation to share the message of our Lord Jesus Christ and Him crucified. At the risk of sounding hypocritical I find it much easier to write my thoughts than to verbally share them. I fail in knowing the correct things to say and the right time to say it. Generally it comes out, "Accept Jesus Christ today or you're going to Hell." (or something like that). Not exactly effective witnessing. :O)
While I understand the Catholics tend to be slightly different, as you correctly pointed out the catechism contains much scriptural reference. I personally don't think the Vatican want to ruffle any feathers.
For all the opinions and theologies floating around it boils down to confessing with your lips and believing in your heart that Jesus is Lord. While we all sit around debating theology, those who are visiting the widows and orphans will receive the greater reward.
But not in an aggressive, pushy, contentious manner. Somewhere in scripture it says when asked about the confidence in you, implying to me that by the example of your life, people will be attracted to you and ask how it is that you live thus, opening the door for your personal witness and testimony. There are undoubtedly occasions when gentle aggression in warranted in preaching the gospel, but I guess one must be under the guidance of the Holy Spirit and not some obsessive compulsion to preach the word because the bible says so. That approach can cause a lot of harm to some people to the point that it turns them off to the gospel rather than on. So I guess unless people ask you specifically to teach them, sometimes it's better to concentrate quietly on your personal walk and let God worry about who is doing things wrong and who is doing things right. Personally I believe we are all called to share our faith when appropriate, but I do not believe all are specifically called to preach, especially we women :-).
While we all sit around debating theology, those who are visiting the widows and orphans will receive the greater reward.
Good point. I do think religious discussion can be helpful so long as people don't get coercive, but in the end it may boil down to what we do about what we believe rather than having every point of doctine just exactly right. We can be the greatest biblical scholar, but if we have not charity, what is that? Sounding brass or something like that?
I think you're right. It's such a pleasure to talk to someone so reasonable.
You be the heretic, I have been accused the anti-RC troll. The troll and the heretic! What a team!
I must admit I am just a wee bit jealous. I would love to see JPII plant a big juicy one on Calvin's Institutes.
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