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MARIAN DEVOTION - Akathist Hymn to the Mother of God
Various ^

Posted on 05/03/2004 8:48:00 AM PDT by NYer

Akathist Hymn
to the Mother of God


 

Kontakion
To you, / powerful Queen and Ruler,
we sing/ this song of praise to you, Mother of God.
Since you/ have unconquerable power,
Protect us/ from all danger so that we may sing to you:
Rejoice, O Bride and Maiden - ever-pure!

 

Ode 1

From the Soul
An archangel was sent from Heaven, to greet the Mother of God. And as he saw You, O Lord, assuming human form, he stood rapt in amazement and cried out to her in these words:

Rejoice, O you, though whom joy will shine forth!
Rejoice, O you, through whom the curse will disappear!
Rejoice, O restoration of the fallen Adam!
Rejoice, O redemption of the tears of Eve!

Rejoice, O height, beyond human understanding!
Rejoice, O depth, not fathomed by the angels!
Rejoice, for you are the Throne of the King!
Rejoice, for you carried Him, Who carries all!

Rejoice, O morning star who manifests the Sun!
Rejoice, O womb of the Divine Incarnation!
Rejoice, O you, through whom Creation is renewed!
Rejoice, O you, through whom the Creator becomes a Babe!

Rejoice, O Bride and Maiden — ever-pure!

From the Heart
Knowing that she was pure, the most blessed Virgin quickly answered Gabriel saying: "My soul is unable to understand Your mysterious words. How is it, that you speak of a birth that is to come from a conception without seed, and sing: Alleluia?"

Alleluia (3).

 

Ode 2

From the Soul
Trying to grasp the meaning of this mystery, the Virgin asked the holy messenger of God: "How is it possible that a son be born of a virginal womb? Tell me." But instead he answered her with great awe, crying out in these words:

Rejoice, Hidden secret of God's ineffable Plan!
Rejoice, for you believed in the Mystery unrevealed!
Rejoice, for you are the beginning of the miracles of Christ!
Rejoice, for you are the crown of the truths concerning Him!

Rejoice, O heavenly Ladder, by which God came down!
Rejoice, O Bridge, leading those on earth to heaven!
Rejoice, O Miracle, most-wondrous to the angels!
Rejoice, O Wound, bewailed by the demons!

Rejoice, for you gave birth to the glorious Light!
Rejoice, for you did not revel how it was done!
Rejoice, for you surpass the wisdom of the wise!
Rejoice, for you enlighten the minds of the faithful!

Rejoice, O Bride and Maiden — ever-pure!

From the Heart
When the power of the Most High overshadowed the one who is blessed among women, her fruitful womb conceived. She became for all a wondrous field — for those who wish to reap salvation while singing: Alleluia!

Alleluia (3).

 

Ode 3

From the Soul
Bearing God in her womb the Virgin hastened to Elizabeth, whose unborn child immediately recognized her greeting and rejoiced. Leaping up as if in song, he cried out to the Mother of God:

Rejoice, O Vine, bearing the unfolding Bloom!
Rejoice, O Land, who bears immortal Fruit!
Rejoice, O you, who cared for the Lover of mankind!
Rejoice, O you, who gave birth to the Giver of life!

Rejoice, O Field, bearing a wealth of compassion!
Rejoice, O Table, laden with gifts of mercy!
Rejoice, for you make Paradise blossom in beauty again!
Rejoice, for you prepare a haven for our souls!

Rejoice, most pleasing Incense of intercession!
Rejoice, Offering for the whole world!
Rejoice, good will of God unto all mankind
Rejoice, Confidence of all before God.

Rejoice, O Bride and Maiden — ever-pure!

From the Heart
Joseph, a righteous man, was overcome by doubt and contradiction. He feared that You, all-blameless One, had been deluded by someone until he learned that Your conception was by the power of the Holy Spirit. Then Joseph cried out: Alleluia!

Alleluia (3).

 

Ode 4

From the Soul
The Shepherds heard the angels singing hymns of praise to Christ, who had come to earth in human flesh. They hurried to Him as would the flock to its Master and upon seeing God as the spotless Lamb nurtured from the womb of Mary, they greeted her saying:

Rejoice, Mother of the Lamb and the Shepherd!
Rejoice, Fold of spiritual lambs!
Rejoice, Protection against invisible foes!
Rejoice, Key to the doors of Paradise!

Rejoice, for the heavens rejoice with the earth!
Rejoice, for the earth sings praise with the heavens!
Rejoice, unceasing glory of the Apostles!
Rejoice, unconquerable courage of the Martyrs!

Rejoice, O firm foundation of faith!
Rejoice, O radiant recognition of grace!
Rejoice, O you through whom hell was stripped bare!
Rejoice, O you through whom we are clothed with glory.

Rejoice, O Bride and Maiden — ever-pure!

From the Heart
When they saw God's wondrous Star, the Magi followed its glittering light as they would a beacon, in search of a mighty King. And having found Him, they drew near the unapproachable One, rejoicing and exclaiming: Alleluia!

Alleluia (3).

 

Ode 5

 From the Soul
When the sons of Chaldea beheld in the hands of the Virgin, Him, the Creator, who had fashioned mankind by His own Hand, they recognized in Him their Master, even though He had come as a tiny Babe. And so they hastened to honour Him with gifts and to the greet the most-blessed of all women:

Rejoice, O Mother of the never-setting Star!
Rejoice, O Dawn of the Mystic day!
Rejoice, O you, who quenched the furnace of error,
Rejoice, O you, who guard the disciples of the Holy Trinity!

Rejoice, for you banished from power the merciless tyrant!
Rejoice, for you made manifest Christ the Lord, the Lover of Mankind,
Rejoice, for you have delivered us from pagan worship!
Rejoice, for you freed us from unclean deeds.

Rejoice, O you who suppressed the worship of fire!
Rejoice, O you who quench the flames of the passions!
Rejoice, O Guide of the faithful towards wisdom!
Rejoice, O Joy of all generations!

Rejoice, O Bride and Maiden — ever-pure!

From the Heart
Having fulfilled Your prophecy, O Lord, the Magi returned to Babylon as God-bearing heralds. They preached to all and witnessed to You as the Christ, leaving Herod behind as a fool, who could not sing: Alleluia!

Alleluia (3).

 

Ode 6

From the Soul
Illuminating Egypt with the light of Truth, You dispelled the darkness of sin and seduction, O Saviour. The idols of that land fell down, unable to withstand Your power and all who were delivered from them greeted the Mother of God:

Rejoice, elation of mankind!
Rejoice, downfall of the demons!
Rejoice, for you crushed the power of deceit!
Rejoice, for you exposed the fraud of idols!

Rejoice, for like the Red Sea, you have drowned the Pharaoh of duplicity!
Rejoice, for like the rock, you have given drink to those who thirst for life!
Rejoice, Pillar of fire, guiding those in darkness!
Rejoice, Protection of the world, broader that the clouds!

Rejoice, O Successor to manna!
Rejoice, O Servant of the Banquet Divine!
Rejoice, O Promised Land!
Rejoice, Land of milk and honey!

Rejoice, O Bride and Maiden — ever-pure!

From the Heart
When Simeon was soon to leave this deceitful world, You were brought to him as a Child. Taking You into his arms he recognized You as the true God, and marveling at Your ineffable wisdom, he cried out: Alleluia!

Alleluia (3).

 

Ode 7

From the Soul
The Creator revealed a new creation when He came down to us, His creation. He came forth from a womb that had received no seed, preserving it intact as it was before, so that seeing this miracle we might sing to the Mother of God:

Rejoice, O Flower of incorruption!
Rejoice, O Garland of purity!
Rejoice, O you, who shine as a sign of the resurrection!
Rejoice, O you, who reveal the life of the angels!

Rejoice, Tree of good fruit from which the faithful feed!
Rejoice, shady Glen where many find shelter!
Rejoice, for you gave birth to the Saviour of the captives!
Rejoice, for you gave birth to the Leader for the lost!

Rejoice, Intercessor before the Just Judge!
Rejoice, Forgiveness of many sins!
Rejoice, Hope of the hopeless!
Rejoice, Tenderness beyond all expectations!

Rejoice, O Bride and Maiden — ever-pure!

From the Heart
Seeing this miraculous birth, let us become strangers to the world and fix our minds on Heaven. Indeed, it is for this reason that the God Most-High appeared on earth: e became a humble man, desiring to draw up to heaven all those who cry out to Him: Alleluia!

Alleluia (3).

 

Ode 8

 From the Soul
The Word unfathomed was wholly present here below, yet in no way absent from the realm on high. For this was a Divine Descent and not a change of place. His birth was from a Virgin who received God, as she heard these words:

Rejoice, Vessel of the uncontainable God!
Rejoice, Gate of Solemn Mystery!
Rejoice, Unheard Message for unbelievers!
Rejoice, highest Praise of the faithful!

Rejoice, most holy chariot of Him, who rides upon the Cherubim!
Rejoice, most glorious Dwelling of the One above the Seraphim!
Rejoice, O you, who joined opposites!
Rejoice O you, who united virginity and motherhood!

Rejoice, O you, through whom sin was absolved!
Rejoice, O you, through whom paradise was re-opened!
Rejoice, Key to the Kingdom of Christ!
Rejoice, Hope of eternal blessing!

Rejoice, O Bride and Maiden — ever-pure!

From the Soul
All the angelic hosts were amazed at Your Incarnation, for they saw God, Whom no one can approach, as a man, approachable by all. He came to dwell among us and He heard from all: Alleluia!

Alleluia (3).

 

Ode 9

From the Soul
Worldly speakers become mute as fish before you, O Mother of God, for they are at a loss to say how you remained a virgin and yet were able to bear a child. As for us, while marveling at this mystery, we cry out to you with faith:

Rejoice, Vessel of the Wisdom of God!
Rejoice, Treasury of His Providence!
Rejoice, Reproof of foolish philosophers!
Rejoice, for the eloquent become speechless before you!

Rejoice, for the clever have made fools of themselves!
Rejoice, for the myth-makers have been silenced!
Rejoice, for you dispelled the Athenian snares!
Rejoice, for you filled the nets of the fishermen!

Rejoice, O you, who draw us from the depths of ignorance!
Rejoice, O Lamplight of understanding to many!
Rejoice, O Ship, for all who seek salvation!
Rejoice, O Harbour, in the voyage of life!

Rejoice, O Bride and Maiden — ever-pure!

From the Soul
Wishing to save the world, the Creator of all came to us as He had promised. Being our God and our Shepherd, out of love for us He took flesh and appeared to all. As man - he called out to all mankind; and as God - he heard from us: Alleluia!

Alleluia (3).

 

Ode 10

From the Soul
O Virgin, Mother of God, you are the strength of virgins and of all those who take refuge in you. For the Creator of heaven and earth gave you to be our Protectress, O Pure One. He dwelt in your womb and taught all to cry out to you:

Rejoice, Pillar of virginity!
Rejoice, Gate of salvation!
Rejoice, Leader of spiritual renewal!
Rejoice, Bestower of God's grace!

Rejoice, for you restore those conceived in sin!
Rejoice, for you counsel those lost in their understanding!
Rejoice, for you stopped the corrupter of hearts!
Rejoice, for you gave birth to the Sower of Chastity!

Rejoice, bridal Chamber of a betrothal without seed!
Rejoice, for you joined the faithful to their Lord!
Rejoice, gracious Mother of virgins!
Rejoice, Bridal escort of Holy souls!

Rejoice, O Bride and Maiden — ever-pure!

From the Heart
The greatest song of praise cannot compare with the multitude of Your mercies, O Holy King! We could sing to You as many songs as there are grains of sand, and yet do nothing worthy of what You have given to us, who cry out to You: Alleluia!

Alleluia (3).

 

Ode 11

From the Heart
We see the holy Virgin as a light-bearing lamp, appearing to those who live in darkness. For she is the one who kindled the immaterial Light, and now, she leads all mankind to the knowledge of God. She fills ours minds with radiance and is worthy of being praised in these words:

Rejoice, Ray of the Living Sun!
Rejoice, Radiance, unfading in splendor!
Rejoice, Lightning-flash that enlightens our souls!
Rejoice, Thunder-clap, that strikes down all foes!

Rejoice, for you caused the many-starred Light to dawn,
Rejoice, for you caused the ever-flowing River to spring,
Rejoice, Icon of the baptismal font,
Rejoice, for you wash away the stain of sin!

Rejoice, flowing water, that cleanses the conscience!
Rejoice, holy Vessel, overflowing with joy!
Rejoice, Fragrance of the sweetness Christ!
Rejoice, Life of the Mystical Banquet!

Rejoice, O Bride and Maiden — ever-pure!

From the Soul
The Lord, who settles all men's scores, desired to make right the ancient debts by means of grace. He came of His own will to those who had fallen from His grace and He tore up the record of their wrong-doings. From all He hears: Alleluia!

Alleluia (3).

 

Ode 12

From the Soul
As we sing of Your childbirth, we praise you as the living Temple, O Mother of God. For the Lord, Who holds all things in His Hand made His dwelling in Your womb. He hallowed and He glorified You, teaching all to sing to You:

Rejoice, O Tabernacle of God the Word!
Rejoice, O Holy One, greater than the Holies!
Rejoice, O Ark, made golden by the Spirit!
Rejoice, O inexhaustible Treasury of life!

Rejoice, precious Crown of pious Kings!
Rejoice, sacred glory of reverent priests!
Rejoice, invincible tower of the Church!
Rejoice, indestructible Wall of the kingdom!

Rejoice, O you, through whom Victory is assured!
Rejoice, O you, through whom enemies are cast down!
Rejoice, O Healing of my body!
Rejoice, O Salvation of my soul!

Rejoice, O Bride and Maiden — ever-pure!

 

Kontakion
O Mother worthy of all praise;
you who have given birth to the Word,
the Holiest of the Holy,
accept this present offering, deliver us from all affliction,
and save from the future punishment those who cry out to you:
Alleluia!

  

Final Ode

From the Soul
To you, O powerful Queen and Ruler, we sing this song of praise to you, Mother of God. Since you have unconquerable power, protect us from all danger so that we may sing to you: Rejoice, O Bride and Maiden — ever-pure!

Rejoice, O Bride and Maiden — ever-pure!

An archangel was sent from Heaven, to greet the Mother of God. And as he saw You, O Lord, assuming human form, he stood rapt in amazement and cried out to her in these words :

Rejoice, O you, though whom joy will shine forth!
Rejoice, O you, through whom the curse will disappear!
Rejoice, O restoration of the fallen Adam!
Rejoice, O redemption of the tears of Eve!

Rejoice, O height, beyond human understanding!
Rejoice, O depth, not fathomed by the angels!
Rejoice, for you are the Throne of the King!
Rejoice, for you carried Him, Who carries all!

Rejoice, O morning star who manifests the Sun!
Rejoice, O womb of the Divine Incarnation!
Rejoice, O you, through whom Creation is renewed!
Rejoice, O you, through whom the Creator becomes a Babe!

Rejoice, O Bride and Maiden — ever-pure!

 

Prayer to the Mother of God

All: O Most Holy Sovereign Lady and Mother of God, powerful to all good, receive from your unworthy servants this praiseworthy hymn, which is due to you alone, for you have been chosen from among the human race and are higher than all celestial and earthly creatures. For through you, our Almighty Lord has dwelt among us; through you, we have come to know the Son of God and are honoured to have his Most Holy Body and Most Precious Blood. Thus you are blessed among all generations.

You are higher in honour than the Cherubim and beyond compare more glorious that the Seraphim. O most-honourable and most holy Mother of God, do not cease to pray for us today, your unworthy servants, so that we may be protected against the guile of the evil one; from his greediness; and that we be delivered unharmed from the his deadly temptations.

Protect us with your prayer until the end of our life and before the eternal judgment; that we, being saved by your help and intercession, might give glory, praise, thanksgiving and honour for all, to the Holy Trinity, One God and Creator of all creatures, now and always and forever. Amen.

 

Dismissal

Priest: Wisdom!

All: Higher in honour than the Cherubim* and beyond compare more glorious than the Seraphim.* Who a virgin, gave birth to the Word of God,* you truly are the Mother of God and we praise you!

Priest: Glory to You, Christ God, Our Hope, glory to You!

All: †Glory to the Father and to the Son and to the Holy Spirit, now, and forever, and unto ages of ages. Amen. Lord, have mercy (3). Give the blessing!

Priest: May Christ our True God, through the prayers of his most pure Mother and those all the Saints, have mercy on us and save us, for he is good and the Lover of mankind.

All: Amen.

 

Rejoice Virgin Mary

Rejoice Virgin Mary, Full of Grace!
O Theotokos, the Lord is with you!
Blessed are you among women!
and blessed is the fruit of your womb:
For you have given birth,
to the Saviour of our souls (2).


TOPICS: Activism; Apologetics; Catholic; Current Events; Ecumenism; General Discusssion; History; Ministry/Outreach; Orthodox Christian; Prayer; Worship
KEYWORDS: marianism; maryworship
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To: topcat54
Exactly. Those of us who believe in sola scriptura understand that ALL Christians are subject to error and everything must be examined through the Bible. Interestingly enough the Reformers would be the first to tell us to look to the Word of God and not to their doctrine. This was the position of the early church fathers such as Augustine as well. After all, they made a clear distinction between inspired scripture and other church writings.

Those who don't believe in sola scriptura simply listen to what others would have them believe.
101 posted on 05/04/2004 7:18:39 AM PDT by HarleyD (For strong is he who carries out God's word. (Joel 2:11))
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To: biblewonk
Mother of my Lord is one thing but mother of God is quite another. It leads us to the pure scatoloty that started this post. Worship.

Unless you cherish some heresy on the person of Christ, you should technically have no problem with the designation "mother of God" (actually theotokos or "God bearer") when properly understood and the original intent of the creed that used it. The early church fathers were attempting to protect the doctrine of Jesus Christ the God-man. It was not an attempt to elevate Mary to some demigod status.

Presbyterian theologian Charles Hodge wrote this which I think sums up the issue well:

The deification of the Virgin Mary in the Church of Rome was a slow process. The first step was the assertion of her perpetual virginity. This was early taken and generally conceded. The second step was the assertion that the birth, as well as the conception of our Lord, was supernatural. The third was the solemn, authoritative decision by the ecumenical council of Ephesus, A. D. 481, that the Virgin Mary was the "Mother of God. On this decision it may be remarked, (a.) That it was rendered rather as a vindication of the divinity of Christ, than as an exaltation of the glory of the Blessed Virgin. It had its origin in the Nestorian controversy. Nestorius was accused of teaching that the Logos only inhabited the man Jesus, whence it was inferred that he held that the person born of the Virgin was simply human. It was to emphasize the assertion that the "person" thus born was truly divine that the orthodox insisted that the Virgin should be called the Mother of God. (b.) There is a sense in which the designation is proper and according to the analogy of Scripture. The Virgin was the Mother of Christ. Christ is God manifest in the flesh: therefore she was the Mothes of God. The infant Saviour was a divine person. Christians do not hesitate to say that God purchased his Church with his own blood. According to the usage of Scripture, the person of Christ may be designated from one nature, when the predicate belongs to the other. He may be called the Son of man when we speak of his filling immensity; and He may be called God when we speak of his being born. (c.) Nevertheless, although the designation be in itself justifiable, in the state of feeling which then pervaded the Church, the decision of the Council tended to increase the superstitious reverence for the Virgin. It was considered by the common people as tantamount to a declaration of divinity. (Systematic Theology, Part III, Chapter XIX, Para. 5)
Hodge shared your concern that what is good and proper may lead to serious error. But we should be careful not to throw the baby out with the bathwater. We need to understand the underlying theology in its true biblical context.
102 posted on 05/04/2004 7:20:39 AM PDT by topcat54
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To: topcat54
Hodge shared your concern that what is good and proper may lead to serious error. But we should be careful not to throw the baby out with the bathwater. We need to understand the underlying theology in its true biblical context.

The focus on the mother is the problem. Who she is the mother of has never been a problem. Sure heretics exist and challenge who He is but we have thrown out the baby with the bath water when we start exalting and worshiping and venerating Mary and ascribing godlike powers to her all in the name of protecting who Jesus is. This is throwing out the baby with the bath water.

103 posted on 05/04/2004 7:28:32 AM PDT by biblewonk (No man can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them.)
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To: NYer
Blessed be the Great Mother of God, Mary, Most Holy!

104 posted on 05/04/2004 7:34:41 AM PDT by Cap'n Crunch
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To: Siobhan; Canticle_of_Deborah; broadsword; NYer; Salvation; sandyeggo; american colleen; ...
Help defend Our Lady on this thread!
105 posted on 05/04/2004 7:40:12 AM PDT by Pyro7480 (Sub tuum praesidium confugimus, sancta Dei Genitrix.... sed a periculis cunctis libera nos semper...)
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To: Cleburne
I never said that Christ was not truly human nor did I "disconnect" Him from our humanity. I said that He never had the Adamic nature because of the virgin birth. Christ, like Adam, was tempted in this perfect human form. He did not have our sin nature but, like Adam, had the capacity for sin. However, unlike Adam, Christ was tempted for 33 years and still remained sinless. And Christ recognized this difference:

Mat 7:11 "If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father who is in heaven give what is good to those who ask Him!"

You assume a person inherits their genetic makeup from the mother. I would disagree and say the genetic makeup is from the father. In this sense the literal Father. After all the Nicene Creed itself states Christ was "conceived by the Holy Spirit".

Whether it is Mary's "egg" or God miraculously planted the whole thing is inconsequential. Sin is transmitted through the male and Mary was impreganted with perfection. One could possibly say all women eggs are pure and holy. It is the man who is the problem.

106 posted on 05/04/2004 7:46:55 AM PDT by HarleyD (For strong is he who carries out God's word. (Joel 2:11))
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Comment #107 Removed by Moderator

Comment #108 Removed by Moderator

To: topcat54
Only according to RC theology. It ain't in the Bible. The same word is used in Eph. 1:6 to refer to all followers of Christ.

Incorrect. The words in Ephesians are thV caritoV autou - "the grace of Him" - meaning Jesus - believers are sanctified through HIS grace. The noun form is used.

The word in Luke 1:28 is kecaritwmenh - a very specific verb form (perfect/passive participle) that you can translate as "is and has been 'graced'." "Full of grace" does omit the passive aspect of the verb form indicating that the grace proceeds from God, but it's as close as we can get in English which doesn't have the precision of Greek.

The word appears nowhere else in the Bible. The Archangel did indeed give Mary a unique greeting for a unique person - the one who consented and was prepared to be the mother of God incarnate.

109 posted on 05/04/2004 8:03:50 AM PDT by AnAmericanMother (. . . Ministrix of Venery (recess appointment), TTGC Ladies' Auxiliary . . .)
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To: sandyeggo
"We had the Church before we had the Bible."

Oh really? I think God gave us the Ten Commandments before there was even a Synagogue.

Luk 24:44 Now He said to them, "These are My words which I spoke to you while I was still with you, that all things which are written about Me in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms must be fulfilled."

110 posted on 05/04/2004 8:18:33 AM PDT by HarleyD (For strong is he who carries out God's word. (Joel 2:11))
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To: AnAmericanMother
The word appears nowhere else in the Bible. The Archangel did indeed give Mary a unique greeting for a unique person - the one who consented and was prepared to be the mother of God incarnate.

Even admitting that the greeting was unique to Mary, it does not further require the leap to this grace being totally and completely coextensive with Mary's existence from womb to tomb.

The word does not mean nor imply sinlessness which is the typical RC analysis of the text. Nor does it imply that Mary was made perfect because of the grace of God bestowed on her. Such ideas come from one's theology, not from the text itself.

111 posted on 05/04/2004 8:32:17 AM PDT by topcat54
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To: HarleyD
"Those of us who believe in sola scriptura understand that ALL Christians are subject to error and everything must be examined through the Bible."

Problem with that, of course, is that your interpretation of the Bible is also subject to error.

The Church has been working on what the Bible means for almost 2000 years, and can give you the correct interpretation of pretty much every verse.

That's not a question of doctrine; it's a matter of having figured it out (with the guidance of the Holy Ghost, of course).

Ain't no way on God's green Earth that any person is ever going to figure it all out on his own steam. Life just isn't that long.
112 posted on 05/04/2004 8:34:33 AM PDT by dsc
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To: HarleyD
Sin is transmitted through the male ... It is the man who is the problem.

That's not in the Bible, Harley. That's Protestant tradition.

(BTW, Catholics and Orthodox believe nothing remotely like it. Original sin is the inherited lack of grace, not some polluted "Adamic nature" that is transmitted from men.)

113 posted on 05/04/2004 8:45:35 AM PDT by Campion
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To: topcat54
The word does not mean nor imply sinlessness which is the typical RC analysis of the text.

No, but it does preclude your idea that Mary was sanctified at the Annunciation.

Nor does it imply that Mary was made perfect because of the grace of God bestowed on her.

If Mary was made perfect, there is no other way it could have happened but by the grace of God. Agree?

114 posted on 05/04/2004 8:47:12 AM PDT by Campion
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To: topcat54
It does (through the verb form) state that the "graced" state of Mary preexisted the angel's visit. And that the "graced" state is complete and perfect. Caritas is the greatest of God's gifts, as John states.

You'll note, though, that it is God's work and not Mary's - "Lo from henceforth all generations shall call me 'blessed', for He that is mighty hath magnified me."

I'm sorry that it worries you so much. We give honor to presidents (well, some of them anyway), kings, and lords . . . surely greater honor is due God's mother!

And while I'm certain that some Catholics may fall into the error of "Mariolatry" from time to time, nobody is suggesting that ALL Catholics EVERYWHERE are ALWAYS perfect in their religious practices. Nothing in the Catechism nor Church doctrine attributes to Mary the right to worship in the divine sense. Honor, yes, devotion, yes. But not worship.

115 posted on 05/04/2004 9:04:42 AM PDT by AnAmericanMother (. . . Ministrix of Venery (recess appointment), TTGC Ladies' Auxiliary . . .)
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To: Campion
If Mary was made perfect, there is no other way it could have happened but by the grace of God. Agree?

If the moon were made of green cheese, it would taste like gouda. Agreed?

Why do you wish me to hypothesize about something which cannot be?

116 posted on 05/04/2004 9:06:09 AM PDT by topcat54
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To: topcat54
If the moon were made of green cheese, it would taste like gouda. Agreed?

No, gouda isn't green.

Why do you wish me to hypothesize about something which cannot be?

Cannot be?? Claiming that it did not happen is one thing, but now you're claiming that it could not happen? God created sinless human beings when he created Adam and Eve. Did he lose that ability at some point?

Putting limits on God's grace and sovereignty is a really, really bad and un-Protestant idea. God can raise up sinless human beings by the millions out of mushrooms, if he wants to. Cannot be? I can't believe you said that.

117 posted on 05/04/2004 9:12:07 AM PDT by Campion
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To: AnAmericanMother
It does (through the verb form) state that the "graced" state of Mary preexisted the angel's visit.

But there is no chronology involved. It could have been a week or a month or years. But there is no necessity in the text to take it back to her conception. That is purely a matter of theological presuppositions. In the RC worldview Mary MUST have been conceived without sin.

And that the "graced" state is complete and perfect.

If by "complete and perfect" you mean it was impossible for her to sin, then, no, it does not mean that. It was complete only in the sense that God, the author of her salvation, justifies His saints by the imputed righteousness of Christ, and briung us by the process of sanctification to a state of glory without regard to our estate.

118 posted on 05/04/2004 9:15:55 AM PDT by topcat54
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To: topcat54
If by "complete and perfect" you mean it was impossible for her to sin, then, no, it does not mean that

Catholics don't believe it was impossible for Mary to have sinned, only that she didn't.

119 posted on 05/04/2004 9:18:03 AM PDT by Campion
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To: Campion
God created sinless human beings when he created Adam and Eve. Did he lose that ability at some point?

This sounds like one of those "can God make a rock so big He can't move it" types of arguments.

Mary was not created ex nihilo, as was Adam (and by extension Eve). She had both a human mother and father. Sin comes generationally through the father. Unless Mary's father were also born sinless, she could not be. And so on.

Since Jesus had no earthly father, original sin was not passed to Him. He was the only person born sinless. He was absolutely unique in that regard, being without original or actual sin.

Of Jesus (not Mary) it is said, "For He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him."

120 posted on 05/04/2004 9:28:07 AM PDT by topcat54
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