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Vatican says Mass norms must be followed exactly to ensure reverence
Catholic News Service ^ | April 23, 2004 | Cindy Wooden

Posted on 04/23/2004 6:04:36 AM PDT by Desdemona

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To: ArrogantBustard
Well, in the Good Old Days, there was an excellent program at Manhattanville College, in addition to CU, as well as one in Ohio (forgot where) and at least one on the West Coast (Marymount, I think...)

AND each Seminary had at least 2 years' work on the topic, largely practicum, not 'theoretical underpinnings.'

Now one has to wave a flag to make people understand that "sacred" music is NOT the same as "liturgical" music.

Yeeeeeeshhhh
41 posted on 04/23/2004 9:21:24 AM PDT by ninenot (Minister of Membership, TomasTorquemadaGentlemen'sClub)
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To: ninenot
VOLVAMUS!
42 posted on 04/23/2004 9:53:34 AM PDT by B-Chan (Catholic. Monarchist. Texan. Any questions?)
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To: ninenot
Now one has to wave a flag to make people understand that "sacred" music is NOT the same as "liturgical" music.

And people will argue with you over that, too.

I don't know. I doubt much will change without a document specific and pointed with teeth. There needs to be a list of music out there that does NOT meet the criterea and the Vatican is going to have to audit various dioceses and publically state who is in error. It's moving toward that, but in church time.
43 posted on 04/23/2004 9:54:16 AM PDT by Desdemona
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To: ninenot
Musicians as a group tend to think that continuous music is a good thing, which demonstrates that they are a bit dotty.

Or have an ego problem.

(I didn't say that.)
44 posted on 04/23/2004 9:56:34 AM PDT by Desdemona
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To: ninenot
With battle-axes and firewood aplenty, the TTGC stands ready to assist, vigorously.

Tie them up and we can sing really high notes in their ears.
45 posted on 04/23/2004 9:58:01 AM PDT by Desdemona
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To: Desdemona
uhhhnnuuuhhh...

I dunno. "Cruel/unusual" likely applies even under the rules of combat of TTGC.
46 posted on 04/23/2004 10:23:21 AM PDT by ninenot (Minister of Membership, TomasTorquemadaGentlemen'sClub)
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To: ninenot
"Cruel/unusual" likely applies even under the rules of combat of TTGC.

I guess a tablespoon of freshly ground horseradish (the REAL stuff they grow here) is out too. Darn.
47 posted on 04/23/2004 10:33:44 AM PDT by Desdemona
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To: Investment Biker
Christ said "Do this in remembrance of me." As far as I can tell he did not set down a hundred rules at the same time. I am out of here. Let the flames begin...

Don't let the door hit you on the hiney.... Seriously, you're "shocked, shocked" that the church is demanding that the Roman Ritual be said the same way without everyone doing a free-for-all? Perhaps you need to go out an establish your own Protestant denomination! Then you can do whatever the heck you want to....

48 posted on 04/23/2004 10:58:25 AM PDT by gemoftheocean (geez, how come this seems so straight-forward and logical to me......)
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To: netmilsmom
Is it me or does this actually say nothing changes? We will still have Altar girls, 15 lay people handing out communion and raising our hands at the Our Father, type stuff.

No, it's not just you. This document appears to be a major disappointment. What will change in your parish after this document has come out, whether your parish be liberal or conservative? Nothing. It looks like Dr. Thomas Drolesky had the inside scoop when he wrote

Worse than deja vu all over again

49 posted on 04/23/2004 11:41:24 AM PDT by Maximilian
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To: gemoftheocean
That's very unkind. Faced with such a response, I might just walk out too. The church is open to everyone.
50 posted on 04/23/2004 11:45:43 AM PDT by Desdemona
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To: Maximilian
We don't always get what we want. I get the distinct impression that this is a strike two situation.

As for girls serving - note how the virtues of having boys served are laid out specifically and girls and women are listed in what will probably be described as an afterthought. It's obvious what the Vatican prefers in this case.
51 posted on 04/23/2004 11:50:47 AM PDT by Desdemona
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To: gemoftheocean
Nothing like a Christian attitude to make me want to change. At least I will not have to put up with the folks that share your attitude.
52 posted on 04/23/2004 11:58:04 AM PDT by Investment Biker
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To: Investment Biker
What kind of bike do you ride?

BigMack
53 posted on 04/23/2004 12:02:36 PM PDT by PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain (Proud member of the Lunatic Fringe, we love Spam, Uzi's and Jesus)
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To: Investment Biker
Please understand that not all of us think that way and some of us mourn greatly those who walk away.

It is unchristian to do anything else.
54 posted on 04/23/2004 12:03:25 PM PDT by Desdemona
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To: Desdemona
It's obvious what the Vatican prefers in this case.

It's just as obvious that many American bishops don't give a rodent's rump what the Vatican prefers.

55 posted on 04/23/2004 12:09:12 PM PDT by ArrogantBustard (Western Civilisation is aborting, buggering, and contracepting itself out of existence.)
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To: ArrogantBustard
It's just as obvious that many American bishops don't give a rodent's rump what the Vatican prefers.

Somehow, I don't think this is a problem limited to the Americas.
56 posted on 04/23/2004 12:10:39 PM PDT by Desdemona
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To: Desdemona; ninenot
Tie them up and we can sing really high notes in their ears.

Or render them fit only to sing really high notes themselves...

(Yes, I'm still CE, TTGC!)

57 posted on 04/23/2004 12:11:29 PM PDT by ArrogantBustard (Western Civilisation is aborting, buggering, and contracepting itself out of existence.)
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To: bankwalker
The opening page looks like a copy of the wall painting at the Basilica of the Blessed Mother in Washington, DC

One priest mentioned that it looked like a pump up version of God.

I'm not sure if it represents God or Christ?

Anyway, the site was great.
58 posted on 04/23/2004 12:39:52 PM PDT by franky (Pray for the souls of the faithful departed. Pray for our own souls to receive the grace of a happy)
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To: Investment Biker
Next time I see him and we are out together I will kid him and ask him if they brought back the selling of indulgences yet because I need some.

Why practice simony when you can earn them with out much difficulty? I, like may other freeper Catholics earned a plenary indulgence last Sunday. Didn't cost a dime.;)

59 posted on 04/23/2004 12:47:44 PM PDT by conservonator (Blank by popular demand)
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To: Desdemona
The first two I emailed the two priest at my church. I'm tired of people falling over two aisles to shake hands and the "extra ordinary servers" walking up the aisle for a hand shake. Also, those receiving communion in the hand and walking about 15 feet from the altar as they put the host in thier mouths.

The third is for a church I went to for a novena and they had the Euharist and the 2 challices were of glass holding the wine.

[72.] It is appropriate “that each one give the sign of peace only to those who are nearest and in a sober manner”. “The Priest may give the sign of peace to the ministers but always remains within the sanctuary, so as not to disturb the celebration. He does likewise if for a just reason he wishes to extend the sign of peace to some few of the faithful”. “As regards the sign to be exchanged, the manner is to be established by the Conference of Bishops in accordance with the dispositions and customs of the people”, and their acts are subject to the recognitio of the Apostolic See.[152]
90.] “The faithful should receive Communion kneeling or standing, as the Conference of Bishops will have determined”, with its acts having received the recognitio of the Apostolic See. “However, if they receive Communion standing, it is recommended that they give due reverence before the reception of the Sacrament, as set forth in the same norms”.[176]

92.] Although each of the faithful always has the right to receive Holy Communion on the tongue, at his choice,[178] if any communicant should wish to receive the Sacrament in the hand, in areas where the Bishops’ Conference with the recognitio of the Apostolic See has given permission, the sacred host is to be administered to him or her. However, special care should be taken to ensure that the host is consumed by the communicant in the presence of the minister, so that no one goes away carrying the Eucharistic species in his hand. If there is a risk of profanation, then Holy Communion should not be given in the hand to the faithful.[179]

[117.] Sacred vessels for containing the Body and Blood of the Lord must be made in strict conformity with the norms of tradition and of the liturgical books.[205]The Bishops’ Conferences have the faculty to decide whether it is appropriate, once their decisions have been given the recognitio by the Apostolic See, for sacred vessels to be made of other solid materials as well. It is strictly required, however, that such materials be truly noble in the common estimation within a given region,[206]so that honour will be given to the Lord by their use, and all risk of diminishing the doctrine of the Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharistic species in the eyes of the faithful will be avoided. Reprobated, therefore, is any practice of using for the celebration of Mass common vessels, or others lacking in quality, or devoid of all artistic merit or which are mere containers, as also other vessels made from glass, earthenware, clay, or other materials that break easily. This norm is to be applied even as regards metals and other materials that easily rust or deteriorate.[207
60 posted on 04/23/2004 12:51:03 PM PDT by franky (Pray for the souls of the faithful departed. Pray for our own souls to receive the grace of a happy)
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