Vatican says Mass norms must be followed exactly to ensure reverence

Catholic News Service ^ | April 23, 2004 | Cindy Wooden

[franky]

I am 72 years old. Until 2 years ago I had not been to confession or communion since 1973.

I will pray for you not to follow my path. I realized, after so many years of my mistakes, that the Church with all its faults was still the only way. It must be doing something right after 2000 years.

I have prayed daily for the Church and will continue to pray.

It is very cold out there alone.

[lrslattery]

the instruction did not ban liturgical dance; it did not mention dance at all.

I believe this will cover 'dancing girls' around the altar.

[79.] Finally, it is strictly to be considered an abuse to introduce into the celebration of Holy Mass elements that are contrary to the prescriptions of the liturgical books and taken from the rites of other religions.

The 'prescriptions' are those things enumerated in the liturgical books. Dancing is not given as an option in any 'prescriptions'. To introduce it into the Mass would be contrary to the 'prescriptions'. Essentially, nothing may be introduced into the Mass that is not allowed in the GIRM or other authoritative documents.

[ninenot]

There is no doubt about what the Vatican wants--and there is no doubt that it will be up to the Bishops to make it happen.

Altar girls are transitory and Des. nailed it--they're an afterthought in the document, and should be similar at Mass.

Since there IS no such thing as "Liturgical Dance," the Vatican didn't have to address it. But they certainly nailed "Clown" Masses and Polka Masses, too.

Of course, there will be disobedience--and screeching from the usual quarters: the schismatics of the Poofterwonk persuasion, and the SSPX persuasion.

Nothing new under the Sun.

[sinkspur]

Altar girls are transitory

Not after an official Church document grants bishops the right to use them. Don't count on that authority to be pulled back.

[Fast Ed97]

[lrslattery]

I have some pictures, too. How do you post them here?

There are here...
http://slatts.blogspot.com/2003_10_12_slatts_archive.html

with commentary...

[ninenot]

I used the term for a reason: altar girls are like bell-bottoms, or love beads. Transitory.

No documents needed.

[netmilsmom]

>>[79.] Finally, it is strictly to be considered an abuse to introduce into the celebration of Holy Mass elements that are contrary to the prescriptions of the liturgical books and taken from the rites of other religions.<<

Do you think this could cover the "raising of hands" for the Our Father????

[Desdemona]

Altar girls are transitory and Des. nailed it--they're an afterthought in the document, and should be similar at Mass.

You get the idea that it was a sort of conciliatory add-in, just to keep the peace. It wouldn't surprise me if we see a big change in the next ten years.

[Desdemona]

From Zenit

Document on Eucharist Underwent a Dozen Drafts

New Instruction Addresses a Key Concern of John Paul II

VATICAN CITY, APRIL 23, 2004 (Zenit.org).- The Vatican instruction "Redemptionis Sacramentum," on abuses regarding the Eucharist and the celebration of Mass, responds to one of John Paul II's key concerns, and went through a dozen drafts.

At a press conference today, Cardinal Francis Arinze, prefect of the Vatican Congregation for Divine Worship and the Sacraments, revealed that the work of preparation began even before the Pope announced its commission officially in the 2003 encyclical "Ecclesia de Eucharistia."

The cardinal said that the instruction is the fruit of the intense collaboration of his congregation and the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, whose prefect is Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger.

Before the publication of the encyclical, "we asked our member bishops, cardinals and others to send us the complaints and doubts that are expressed to have an idea" of the problems to be addressed, Cardinal Arinze explained.

"Then, the two congregations established a joint commission at the beginning of last year. The two prefects and secretaries revised this work," he added.

The first draft of the document was presented last May to all the members of the two congregations -- some 70 cardinals, archbishops and bishops. The text was then discussed last June.

"There was still much work after that, as a first draft always needs many changes. We then started the consultations and contributions. We have written some 12 drafts between May and two months ago," the cardinal said, adding with a smile "this is normal" for Vatican documents.

[Desdemona]

I meant to mention that the USCCB has the document on the homepage. The complete version, too.

Interesting.

[gemoftheocean]

That's very unkind. Faced with such a response, I might just walk out too. The church is open to everyone.

It may be "unkind" but it's also true! This is not a "cafeteria religion" or a bowling club! [Didn't you notice?] If it's "fellowship" you want, there are millions of organizations to pick from where you can do whatever you please, and say that what you are doing is right. But if you happen to be a Jewish Boy and want to be bar mitzvahed, don't be surprised if the rabbi wants you to be circumcised first. And if you want to receive communion in a catholic church, or get married in one, don't be surprised if you are asked to follow the rules!

[gemoftheocean]

Please understand that not all of us think that way and some of us mourn greatly those who walk away. It is unchristian to do anything else.

BTW, I have to thank you two for giving me the laugh of the day. Desdemona, you're moaning that the Vatican didn't forbid female altar servers, crying in your beer that you *know* in your little heart of hearts think Jesus would have slapped away some little girl handing him a cup of wine to consecrate...while at the same time moaning at me for taking issue with a guy who is upset that the priest just can't make up his own words at the eucharist prayer (I guess a "ghetto" consecration can be along the lines of "whoop - dere it is") and consecrate a vodka mai-tai and a bag of dorritos.

You two are enough to make a cat laugh.

If you can't figure out what is really essential, then maybe both of you ought to rethink being in the church. It will shed the rest of us of having to deal with such silliness at both ends of the spectrum.

[Desdemona]

And I just went to confession, so I'll refrain from saying to you what comes to mind.

[Desdemona]

HOld on just a second - I'm a problem because I want to see vocations flourish and I believe that boys serving Mass is a way to foster it? Or is it because, I disagree with you? Frankly, Ive always thought that the whole girl altar server was less about service than it was pushy women whining until they got their way.

And frankly, I doubt Jesus would have slapped at any child, but remember who He was with when He instituted the Eucharist - 12 MEN. He wasn't with children.

[gemoftheocean]

HOld on just a second - I'm a problem because I want to see vocations flourish and I believe that boys serving Mass is a way to foster it? Or is it because, I disagree with you?

No, you're a "problem" because you think that a boy is so insecure that if a female also hands one of the cruets to father the altar boy's whole little world will be shattered. Sheesh. Did it ever cross your mind that maybe a girl serving at mass might also be inspired to become a nun? 100-1 it never occured to you. Serving mass is good for BOTH OF THEM.

Frankly, Ive always thought that the whole girl altar server was less about service than it was pushy women whining until they got their way.

Then you think wrong. Why is having a penis a prerequisite for assisting the priest at mass? IS the server ALSO consecrating the bread and wine? NO. Then lay off with your fantasies about "pushy women" and realize that it's good for BOTH boys and girls to learn to serve mass and develop a love of the eucharist. Think about equity and justice for once. Did you have a sister that regularly beat the snot out of you? Or if you are a woman, were you one of those "weak sisters" that threw a ball "like a girl" and resented any any girl that didn't feel like hanging around wearing pink all day and giggling about boys and had a life of her own not ordained or governed by your little clique of what was "socially proper?"

And frankly, I doubt Jesus would have slapped at any child, but remember who He was with when He instituted the Eucharist - 12 MEN. He wasn't with children

Gee, then by your "logic" [/snicker] women shouldn't attend mass at all. Who do you think made the bread and washed the dishes?

There weren't ANY "altar boys" at the last supper either. "Altar boys" were a man made _CUSTOM_. Man made customs can be altered. OR perhaps you will argue for slavery too since Paul told slaves to be obedient to their slave masters.

Try realizing that times change. Do you stand by the door of your church and wag your finger at women/girls wearing braids and pearl earrings too? You sound like you have enough time on your hands to worry about that.

There may be some good reasons for a male only priesthood. But I can find NONE for a "male only" altar server "requirement." To hear some of you talk it's like you believe the sacristy is some sort of male locker room with gang showers. Or it's like you hold some sort of primative belief that if a menstruating women touches something a virile man is using he becomes ritually impure or some such nonsense. Get a grip and come into the 21st century.

[Desdemona]

No, you're a "problem" because you think that a boy is so insecure that if a female also hands one of the cruets to father the altar boy's whole little world will be shattered.

Actually, as an older sister of three all American boys, I don't think this - I KNOW it.

What I do with my own time, is my own affair. I do not stand at the church door and wag my finger at anyone. In another 40-50 years I'll be old enough to do so, but at the moment, I try my darnedest not to pay attention to girls' fashions because they don't know how to dress. I was lucky enough to have a mother and grandmother who cared enough to be sure my sister and I learned what is decent and what isn't.

Think about equity and justice for once.

I have. I think it is wrong for women to encroach on everything men do. There are some things that we should just respectfully allow to be a male, character building experience. So many poor boys aren't learning what it means to be masculine.

Did you have a sister that regularly beat the snot out of you?

My sister would never do anything of the sort. SHe did a lot of pushing, though.

Or if you are a woman, were you one of those "weak sisters" that threw a ball "like a girl" and resented any any girl that didn't feel like hanging around wearing pink all day and giggling about boys and had a life of her own not ordained or governed by your little clique of what was "socially proper?"

I had a better pitch than a lot of boys I knew and still have a much better batting stance, but truthfully, my sport was swimming. Well, I also was in ballet, gymnastics, figure skating and still am in music. I was never in a clique. The girls I went to school with were mean, nasty and had not the slightest idea of how to be feminine. And none of them had any interest in being, either.

My interest is in fostering young boys so that they grow up to be good men. That takes guidance from men. One does not need to serve Mass to have a solid relationship with Christ. I have one. I go to Adoration once a week, confession regularly, say my Rosary every day. I don't buy that girls "have" to serve Mass to have a good relationship with Christ.

[Desdemona]

And what exactly is wrong with pink? It happens to be one of my better colors. A good chunck of my wardrobe is pink.

[PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain]

Another one that just can't undersatnd, huh.

Becky