Catholic Factor 2004 [presidential Election -- Bush vs. Kerry on abortion]

Catholic Exchange ^ | 3-13-04 | Ken ConCannon

[Salvation]

Kerry will meet staunch Catholic opposition!

[Salvation]

Catholic Discussion Ping!

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[Salvation]

Pleasae ping your lists.

[Salvation]

Please

[cebadams]

>> Kerry will meet staunch Catholic opposition!

Why so you think so? There is an opportunity right now for Catholics to voice their opposition to Kerry and his agenda but it clearly isn't happening. For instance, where was the criticism on Ash Wednesday when Kerry used it as a photo op?

[Salvation]

You didn't read mine, eh?

[Salvation]

I don't think Kerry has been out of the Church's dart-board focus:

The Deadly Dozen

Blood On Their Hands: Exposing Pro-abortion Catholic Politicians

Kerry [Catholic} says he'll filibuster Supreme Court nominees who do not support abortion rights

PETITION TO EX-COMMUNICATE PRO-ABORTION CATHOLIC ELECTED OFFICIALS

Catholics Kerry and Kennedy have a 100% Pro-homosexual Record with the Human Rights Campaign! Page 10,11

Kerry says he alone hasn't 'played games' on abortion

AS KERRY EMERGES, SO DOES CONCERN THAT AS PRESIDENT HE MAY BE DENIED COMMUNION

Archbishop [Raymond Burke] Would Refuse Communion To John Kerry

Kerry raps Pope: Senator fuming over gay marriage order

(re Kerry & Kennedy) Boston Bishop O'Malley Says "It Is Not Our Policy To Deny Communion"

Catholics Attack Kerry on Abortion Stance

KERRY & GAY MARRIAGE

Kerry tells off the Pope

Kerry dodges constitutional ban question (Gay Marriage)

Kerry Signed Letter Endorsing Homosexual Marriage

Kerry Signed Letter Backing Gay Marriage

John Kerry: A Call To Service Excerpt (on being a practicing Catholic)

Well,well,well!["Catholics for Kerry" leader works for United States Conference of Catholic Bishops]

[Gerish]

I have never voted for a Democrat since they have aligned themselves with the pro-murderers long ago, but I have to laugh at Kerry. Almost as if you want to say to the Democratic Party - this guy is the best you could come up with?

[gbcdoj]

Separation of church and state is false and has been condemned many times by the Church.

55. The Church ought to be separated from the State, and the State from the Church.—Allocution 'Acerbissimum,' Sept. 27, 1852.
56. Moral laws do not stand in need of the divine sanction, and it is not at all necessary that human laws should be made conformable to the laws of nature and receive their power of binding from God.—Allocution 'Maxima quidem,' June 9, 1862.
57. The science of philosophical things and morals and also civil laws may and ought to keep aloof from divine and ecclesiastical authority.—Ibid.
-- Pope Bl. Pius IX, The Syllabus of Errors

Since, then, no one is allowed to be remiss in the service due to God, and since the chief duty of all men is to cling to religion in both its reaching and practice-not such religion as they may have a preference for, but the religion which God enjoins, and which certain and most clear marks show to be the only one true religion -it is a public crime to act as though there were no God.
-- Pope Leo XIII, Encyclical "Immortale Dei"

That the State must be separated from the Church is a thesis absolutely false, a most pernicious error. Based, as it is, on the principle that the State must not recognize any religious cult, it is in the first place guilty of a great injustice to God...Hence the Roman Pontiffs have never ceased, as circumstances required, to refute and condemn the doctrine of the separation of Church and State.
-- Pope St. Pius X, Encyclical "Vehementer nos"

It would be a grave error, on the other hand, to say that Christ has no authority whatever in civil affairs, since, by virtue of the absolute empire over all creatures committed to him by the Father, all things are in his power.
-- Pope Pius XI, Encyclical "Quas Primas"

O Christ, that Heads of State may honor Thee publicly, that professors and judges honor Thee, that Thou be manifest in laws and the arts!
-- Vespers Hymn of Christ the King

Therefore it leaves untouched traditional Catholic doctrine on the moral duty of ... societies toward the true religion and toward the one Church of Christ.
-- Vatican II, Declaration "Dignitatis Humanae"

[Salvation]

Welcome to FR, newbie!

[cebadams]

Great list. But let's look at your list a bit -- Kerry clearly publicly exposes all sorts of anti-Catholic positions. His pronoucements clearly bring scandal to the Church. So where is the outrage? Burke would deny him communion, O'Mally would not. That appears to be it.

[Salvation]

I think that's where we are with O'Malley right now. Pinging american colleen to get her input from the Boston Diocese.

We also have the bishop in South Dakota asking Daschle to stop taking Communion. Also Bruskewitz of Lincoln Diocese in Nebraska has spoken out on this. I know because my brother lives there.

There are a couple of other bishops who are stepping up to the plate too.

Can any of you help me with additional bishops, here?

[sinkspur]

Sal, that's wishful thinking. There are too many Catholics whose "daddy" voted Democrat, and they, therefore, will vote Democrat.

My mother, God rest her soul, voted Democrat to the day she died, in 1991.

She would have voted for Clinton, without question.

Some Catholics hold voting Democrat to be more sacred than Church teaching.

[Salvation]

So are you saying that you also vote Democrat? I doubt it because you wouldn't be here if that were the case.

Sometimes we learn/change in our journeys, correct?

For instance there are several screenames:
formerDem comes to mind.

[cebadams]

Interesting read over here:

Like the 2000 presidential election, the Catholic vote will be up for grabs in 2004. An October 2002, Catholics for a Free Choice (CFFC) report maintained that Catholic voters were increasingly independent minded, refusing to be identified with either the Democrats or Republicans. The report, entitled "Beyond the Spin," analyzed the voting patterns of Catholic voters -- who make up nearly 25% of the electorate -- and found that "Despite a convergence of concern for social justice and the value of the family, they show an increasing independence and volatility in voting."

Catholics "are most concerned about bread-and-butter issues of personal economic security [and] [t]hey are influenced more by what the candidates will do about preserving Social Security and Medicare, improving health care and education, and fighting crime, than by church-defined issues of morality," the report read. On three highly charged issues, the majority of Catholic voters stray from the Vatican's line: 80% support the death penalty, 66% percent support legal abortion, and 56% percent support the practice of allowing doctors to assist in the suicide of terminally ill patients.

[gbcdoj]

Hi, Salvation.

[cont] The bishops ought to speak out against Catholic politicians who use "separation of church and state" to justify immoral activity and the lack of recognition of Christ's Church as the established religion of society(*). Having 3-4 bishops deny communion to some legislators who are the most egregious advocates of abortion is just not enough! The key issue here with legalized abortion, contraception (cf. H.V. §23), etc. is a denial of the Kingship of Christ on the part of many Catholics and other Christians, IMO.

(*) Of course, the establishment of the One, Holy, Roman, Catholic and Apostolic Church of Christ as the only religion of the State is now impractical in most countries, but that doesn't mean the principle is not still existent.

[gbcdoj]

Bishop Wiegand in CA told Gov. Gray Davis not to take Communion.

I am from the Boston Archdiocese, Bishop O'Malley seems like a pretty good bishop but I believe his most recent statement was that pro-abortion politicians should not dare to approach Holy Communion, but they'd be able to recieve anyway if they did. Better than most, who haven't really said anything on the issue at all.

[formerDem]

"So are you saying that you also vote Democrat? I doubt it because you wouldn't be here if that were the case."

I drifted away from the church at about age 14. Had my "second conversion" in 1998. So, that is why I am a former democrat. I grew up hearing that the Republicans are for the rich and the democrats are for the poor. I vote for republicans now because I consider them the lesser of two evils.

[sinkspur]

No. I've never voted Democrat in my life. But, some of these old-line Democrats never change, and WILL never change.

[sinkspur]

Of course, the establishment of the One, Holy, Roman, Catholic and Apostolic Church of Christ as the only religion of the State is now impractical in most countries, but that doesn't mean the principle is not still existent.

I prefer the United States Constitution, which forbids the establishment of a state religion, Catholic or otherwise.