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Posted on 03/10/2004 9:37:27 PM PST by malakhi
| Statesmen may plan and speculate for liberty, but it is religion and morality alone which can establish the principles upon which freedom can securely stand. The only foundation of a free constitution is pure virtue. - John Adams |
All men are sinners. Heaven will be full of sinners just as Hell is.One does not go to hell for your sin, one goes to hell for refusing the Mercy of God through Christ.
When God looks at those that have put on Christ , He sees His holiness and not our sin.
Not exactly. This isn't a doctrinal dispute - it's a question of fact. The Messiah either "did" or "did not" come. If He "did" than Christianity is the original core and jews "broke away" from the Truth. If He "did not" then the Christians are heretics. Not all breaks mean that the older is the core and the newer is the apostate group (until the 1300's... THEN the rules changed..:-)...)
Do those in hell hate God? Do they grieve for what they could have had?
Does God grieve for those who are lost?
SD
"We do not want churches because they will teach us to quarrel about God, as the Catholics and Protestants do."
[Chief Joseph of the Nez Perce]
But I wonder if old Chief Joseph wasn't guilding the lily a bit. Surely even the Nez Perce had divisions and arguments over what the Great Spirit wanted and didn't approve of.
I can imagine the tribe had it's own CINOs and SPXXers and Calvinists and Armenians, and Pharisees, Essenes and Saducees, though likely very few Samaritans lasted long.
Say what?
When is the reprobate given the opportunity to accept or refuse the Mercy of God? Are you now saying God offers salvation to all, but some refuse?
SD
"All men are sinners. Heaven will be full of sinners just as Hell is."
One would think that fear of embarasment would cause you to seperate those posts at least far enough to get them on different pages. Or does He now hate those He sends to Heaven?
Read it again. It is a general statement. Paul is telling them why the man would be damned if he ate without faith. He would be damned for eating without faith because whatever we do without faith is sin. It isn't restricted to what we eat or drink.
You demonstrate the very worst in taking a quote out of context and trying to make it into a universal. The Scriptures should be read in context.
Look again, I was in context.
It's a good clue that a verse is being cherrypicked when it begins with an "And" and yet we are supposed to act as if it stands on its own.
You don't have to quote a whole chapter in order to be within context.
Good quetion.....now watch out for flying lexicons and spraying font colors.
The saved are sinners saved by grace, not by their own worth or work.
Do you deny that we are all sinners saved by Grace?
Rom 3:24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
Rom 8:1 [There is] therefore now no condemnation to them which are in ChristJesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Rom 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
1Cr 1:30 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption
You said He hates sinners AND that sinners will be in Heaven.
Oh ok.
Why don't you just answer the question? Does God offer salvation to all, but some refuse? Or does God only offer salvation to the predetermined elect?
SD
No. I just deny that God hates us. Especially those who are saved by His grace.
How about this one?:
"God is love" 1Jn4:8
2,366 posted on 04/07/2004 2:10:01 PM EDT by ET(end tyranny) (Isaiah 47:4 - Our Redeemer, YHWH of hosts is His name, The Holy One of Israel.)
Since no one else has tried to answer, maybe you will. OOOPS maybe not, you still havent answered the one about prophets even though I posted it twice.
I respectfully disagree.
Your position makes good and evil subjective. Tending to the poor and comforting the afflicted, etc. are objectively good acts. They are not sins.
The Good Samaritan is reduced to nonsense if you believe this. His faith was incorrect and ill formed, but it is his actions which are praised.
Now, don't get me wrong, I understand that the reprobate can never merit Heaven. But that doesn't mean that he never does anything good.
Your interpretation of this verse sure does explain alot, though. It's good to have this difference out in the open.
Just because a heathen could earn salvation neither by caring for an orphan or by eating him, this does not mean that one is not good and the other bad.
In addition, the corollary to any action being taken without faith being automatically a "sin" is that anything underdone in faith is automatically a virtue. That's untrue as well.
SD
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