The Neverending Story (The Christian Chronicles)

AP ^ | 3/24/01

[malakhi]

The Neverending Story
An ongoing debate on Scripture, Tradition, History and Interpretation.

Statesmen may plan and speculate for liberty, but it is religion and morality alone which can establish the principles upon which freedom can securely stand. The only foundation of a free constitution is pure virtue. - John Adams

Previous Thread

[JohnnyM]

I would really like to know where you stand on Jesus. I know from prior posts that you believe Him to be a Prophet, but do also believe He is the Messiah?
Do you believe He is the Son of God?
Do you believe that no one can come to the Father but by Him?
Do you believe He died for your sins?
Do you believe that you need to be born again to inherit the kingdom of God?

I would really very much like to hear what your thoughts are on this.

JM

[Quester]

I have read posts from people that say they have "lurked" on the religious threads for years and have benefited from them.

I've read such posts and received private-mails, as well, from such beneficiaries to these threads.

Appears that God just may be using them and us to His glory after all.

[Quester]

Or that they spend too much time "fellowshipping with darkness" and that this mucks God's sovereignty all up.

Where have I ever posted anything like that?

Unfortunately, ... it can be difficult to tell one bee from another ... when they're swarming.

[SoothingDave]

Answer me this: do you still engage in sin?

Does that mean you have a sinful nature?

Posted once. Referred to again. Now for a third time. Can any Calvinist pick up the thread where Kevin and I left it?

SD

[SoothingDave]

Which goes back to my original question. How can God damn a cat for not being a dog and be called Just? If my nature is to sin. If I am wired from the womb to sin and sin willfully, then how can a just God damn me for that?

Asked and never answered, in context.

SD

[SoothingDave]

Our hearts are thus transformed by God, and we are born again.

And then:

Dogs cannot become cats. Cats cannot become dogs.

Well, Doc. Kevin. Swarm.

Do our "sin natures" change when we are born again to somethign different or not? Do "cats" becone "dogs."

This is the question that was posed, is being posed and will be posed. Care to address it?

Shall I rephrase it, so you can see your conundrum?

You maintain that a man in his natural state can only choose that which is evil. It is not in his nature to do good.

You also maintain that this changes when one is born again. The nature changes. Man is now oriented toward the good.

And we promise to sin no more, knowing we will fail in that promise, but also secure that God is with us always and will not let us fail Him.

So your new "born again" nature is still one that sins, that does evil.

Is your "born again" new nature really just one that is muddled? If the old man can do nothign but bad, shouldn't the new man be able to, following his nature, acheive perfection? If you wish to say the old man can only do evil does not desire good, then shouldn't the new man, transformed by Christ, only do good?

Maybe both natures are more complicated than simply black and white.

SD

[SoothingDave]

If God knew you would never accept Christ as your Saviour and created you anyway, how can He damn you if you are behaving the way He knew you would before He created you?

Hello? Isn't God sovereign? It isn't that God made a person "knowing" that he would not accept Christ. It's that God created this person specifically designed to not accept Christ.

It's like God is running a carnival game where if you put the ball through the hoop, you win salvation. But to some of us, he gives a ball that is simply too big to fit.

And this is the player's fault?

SD

[SoothingDave]

In your theology, you were responsible for Steven and you blew it.

Uh, no. Steven's a bog boy. We have a responsibilty to try to teach and reprove, but none of us is "responsible" for another grown adult.

That is a difficult thing to accept and a responsibility God does not give to any mortal.

So the whole sending out the Apostles to make disciples of the nations thing is just a cosmic joke?

I believe that his downward spiral could have been stopped if y'all were not so busy friendshipping and missing the guy getting led down the legalistic path to perdition.

Try consistency. If God is sovereign, as you claim, and all is predetermined, what difference does it make how we or you behaved toward him?

Maybe it's your theology that needs to blame someone else for an apparent believer's fall? Even at the expense of logical consistency.

SD

[SoothingDave]

If you can't or won't answer a simple question, fine by me.

LOL. My 2142 that I referred you to and invited you to answer. Let's not get high and mighty here on the "answering questions" front.

But if you consider "Ooops, I stopped reading your post after the second sentence" to be an intelligent response, than please don't ping me to your posts again.

Don't be a schmuck. You substituted "heaven" for "hell," a mental typo. Cindy read that as you wrote it and dismissed it.

Don't blame her and try to lord it over her cause of your mistake.

God really doesn't require you to be as offensive and obnoxious as possible in trying to spread the Gospel.

SD

[ksen]

Which goes back to my original question. How can God damn a cat for not being a dog and be called Just? If my nature is to sin. If I am wired from the womb to sin and sin willfully, then how can a just God damn me for that?

I answered the question.

[SoothingDave]

My lil sis who made a brief appearance on the thread picked blind and won $95 in a pool.

You should tell her to pop in and say hello.

SD

[SoothingDave]

Where, please?

SD

[SoothingDave]

See my 2142.

SD

[SoothingDave]

Using the same methods used to deconstruct Christianity, he can deconstruct Judaism.

A very valid point. One which excapes some. But we all have our blind spots.

I'm glad someone got my point. You sure you don't want to convert? We could get you in by next Easter? ;-)

SD

[PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain]

If you call mental gymnastics an answer he answered it.

BigMack

[CindyDawg]

No I didn't:') I had read enough and rolled my eyes and scrolled right on down. I only went back and read it after Kevins post and even though a typo I liked it. Do any of us deserve to go to Heaven?

[SoothingDave]

And, to be precise, Strong's is in no way a lexicon. The writers of the New Testament, contrary to popular opinion, did not have a copy of Strong's at their right hand from which they composed their theological prose. Strong's is a reflection of the interpretation of the Bible of a particular person. It is not the secret decoder ring for theology.

Yes, amen. Especially when one can simply select which meanign from a list to apply to a given verse, with no rhyme or reason.

SD

[SoothingDave]

If I flip a switch in my house, the light comes on. If I don't flip the switch, is the electricity ineffective? Or just not activated? Analogical arguments always have weaknesses and this one is no different, but it points at the meat of the weakness of your argument. Namely, the lack of response on the part of the sinner to the sacrifice of Christ in no way lessens the efficaciousness (that's probably not a word, but you know what I mean) of the sacrifice.

Another good one. And "efficacy" is the form you are looking for.

SD

[SoothingDave]

No I didn't:

Shhh. You've got a lot to learn about revisionism. ;-)

SD

[Dr. Eckleburg]

You may not have noticed, Dave, but I've been ignoring you.

Don't be a schmuck.

I will now address you in a Christian manner, unlike your pathetic remark, and continue to ignore you.

Get over it, Dave-of-limited-though-pompous vocabulary.