In the beginning was Calvinism

unknown | Steve Schlissel

[Gamecock]

An interesting read from our Messianic friends:

The Synagogue of Christ by Steve Schlissel Messianic Jewish pastor Messiah's Congregation, Brooklyn, New York.

The church wasn't born at Pentecost. It was Bar Mitzvah'd. No small matter, this. The church had a long, albeit dotted, history by the time the Spirit in Christ's fullness fell, and a glorious, albeit difficult, future. By Pentecost, the church, because of its history, its providentially-ordained organization and the Holy Spirit's promised guidance, was well-prepared to fulfill its function in the world.

The Belgic Confession, in Article XXVII, states, "We believe and profess one catholic or universal Church...This Church has been from the beginning of the world, and will be to the end thereof..." It has not, however, always had the same form. In the Garden of Eden God identified and separated the church (then consisting of two) using the essential elements, Word and Sacrament, Promise and Token, which would be present throughout the church's history, in some form or another. Our first parents were created to understand themselves and all things else in terms of a word. They had received the defining Word of God; they had heard the anti-word of the serpent. Choosing the devil's definitions, they had broken covenant with their Creator and entered into league with the destroyer, becoming co-pretenders with him to the throne.

God was not about to forsake His purposes, or to quickly formulate a "Plan B." He graciously and forcefully took back Adam and Eve-He redeemed them-by placing hostility between them and their new master (the Antithesis), by promising in their hearing the incarnation of the conquering, suffering Messiah (the Protevangelium, first proclamation of the Gospel), and by clothing them with God-provided coverings (the "Sacrament"), indicating in the clearest terms that their fig leaves (their instinctive effort at self-atonement/covering) were wholly inadequate and unacceptable. It is God who saves. Calvinism did not originate in Geneva; it is found in Eden. God's people, the covenant line, would henceforth be the people redeemed by Him to live, once again, in terms of His Word.

Calvinists are not the "church" founded by John Knox in Scotland. Knox founded no "church", but a Denomination. We are not the "church" founded by the Protestant Reformers. The Reformers founded no "church", but a Reformation. We are not the "church" founded by the Popes at Rome. No "pope" has founded any "church", just a (false) Administration. We are not the "church" founded by the Apostles at Pentecost. The Apostles founded no "church", but a Dispensation. We are not the "church" founded by Moses at Sinai. Moses founded no "church", but a covenanted Theonomic Congregation.

Calvinists are the Church founded by God in the very Garden of Eden. We are the Covenant Line of God's People, redeemed by Him to live in terms of His Word. We have stood the test of Time. And the Gates of Hell shall not prevail against us.

[CCWoody]

It wasn't post #9...

I wonder what Freud would make of your username. Is there something you wanna tell us, Gamecock?
12 posted on 11/14/2003 4:24 PM CST by dangus

I can and will accept dangus' apology, but he is clearly out of line all the way around. It is amazing how cranky Catholics get when they cannot refute something....

Woody.

[CCWoody]

BTW, not that it matters one way or the other, I am not the original source for that material. It is blastedly funny to watch you Catholics scream and have your hissie fits over it so I think I'll pop some corn, pour myself a Bier, invite OP to come spank your naughty little tails, and watch the show....

Woody.

[dangus]

Well, if all those who read it know I retracted it, I'm just kinda hopin the admins take care of it. The point is that I didn't mean to offend or defame Woody.

And yeah, I know post #9 was tasteless. I'm getting sick of the silly ad-hominem attacks. (Sex offenders are just as common in the ECUSA, boy scouts, public schools. I'm really guessing the only reason you don't hear about them non-heirarchical churches is simply the lack of accountability.)

[dangus]

or post #12... But i'll retract it when post #9 is retracted.

[dangus]

But, for the record, I don't consider this cheap shot worthy of refutation:

"You left one out: Can priests molest small boys?"

I happen to think it stands on its own, even to Calvinists, as a uniquely infantile posting, especially after people have seen it on 60,000 threads. It's pretty much the universal response whenever gamecock or his kind have nothing intelligent to say.

[LiteKeeper]

read later

[drstevej]

I'm not sure what the statistics of abuse are by religious group. But no group is immune.

The one situation I am aware of directly resulted in the Protestant pastor who molested teens getting 40 years in the Texas State penitentiary.

I say, "Great!"

[Wrigley]

Here's how I see this. gamecock's post was in response to you listing all kinds of problems with Protestantism. gamecock responded with a general comeback in the same vien as your list.

You responded with a personal attack.

Big difference.

Your post directly to gamecock should be retracted.

Then, if you retract your posts that you posted, gamecock probably should retract his about priests being child molesters.

[Alex Murphy]

Come to think of it... Freud would probably be fascinated by the name "C C Woody!"

Sounds like someone has a bad case of "Woody envy".

[irishtenor]

***Worship God!***

I do.

[drstevej]

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Woody Envy

[Gamecock]

Here's how I see this. gamecock's post was in response to you listing all kinds of problems with Protestantism. gamecock responded with a general comeback in the same vien as your list. You responded with a personal attack.

Big difference.

Your post directly to gamecock should be retracted.

Then, if you retract your posts that you posted, gamecock probably should retract his about priests being child molesters.

I thought that was where dangus wanted to go, I was happy to oblige. Not all priests are child molesters. There, I said it.

[Wrigley]

I don't think dangus has the integrity to retract.

[CCWoody]

***The one situation I am aware of directly resulted in the Protestant pastor who molested teens getting 40 years in the Texas State penitentiary.***

If the Catholics had decided to do that, there wouldn't have been enough priests available to turn that bread into Jeeeeeesus, what with a bunch of them actually being put away from the Catholic children. You gotta have priorities.

Woody.

[drstevej]

***If the Catholics had decided to do that, there wouldn't have been enough priests available to turn that bread into Jeeeeeesus, what with a bunch of them actually being put away from the Catholic children. You gotta have priorities.***

 

Excuse me while I duck

 

[OMalley]

"As an example, listed below are just a few of the major doctrines and beliefs that divide Protestant Sola Scriptura, Churches:
Infant or Adult baptism?
Calvinist Predestination or Arminian Free Will?
Once Saved Always Saved?
Can You Lose Your Salvation?
Is there Assurance of Salvation?
Divorce
Abortion
Is prophecy still given?
Are there still Miracles?
Are miracles guaranteed if you have enough faith?
Will there be a pre-tribulation Rapture of Christians?
Premillenialism or Postmillenialism?
Will there even be a millennium?
Speaking in Tongues - is it valid or not?
Baptism in the Holy Spirit - is it real or a deception?
Are demons real?
Is Jesus physically present in Communion?
Are the Sacraments necessary to salvation?
What form of Authority should exist in the Church?
Need a Church have Bishops?
Can Women be Pastors?
Can homosexuals be admitted to Church?
Does God promise Christians material prosperity?
Should all Images be banned in Worship?
How do you become a Christian?
What musical instruments to use in Worship?
Euthanasia?
Contraception?

The list goes on and on........"

Im confused by your response to the above questions...this post does not seem like a slam to me.

As a former protestent these were many of the issues that baffled me. Noone here can deny that these difference do exists between different denominations and cause confusion for those searching.

I for one would like to see each person on this thread answer the above questions. It might be good for discussion and clarify some questions we all might have about one another.

Okay, back to lurking;)

Blessings,
O'Malley

[Wrigley]

Im confused by your response to the above questions...this post does not seem like a slam to me.

Sure it was.

The RCs here on a continual basis slam Protestants for many things. They claim that there are thousands of different denominations, and that list is supposed to show how those denominations are divided. Contrast that to the one true unified rc church where everyone believes the same and they are the ones who are the true church.

There is the slam. Or the attempted slam.

Follow the context.

[Gamecock]

Hi O'malley, how have you been?

[OMalley]

I have been.

Are you denying that these differences do infact exist?

My suggestion was the questions be answered (by both Catholics and Protestents), but so far noone has been willing to do so.

Im sincerely interested since as a former protestent I was told many thing and many different theologies, each one claiming the "divine way".

There are many ppl searching on the other end, not just us that post and debate, it would be helpful i think to answer such questions.

Well tonight is the first friday night that my house has not been Abuzz with half the nieghborhood children. going to relax and enjoy and evening with the hubby:)

Happy debating everyone,
Blessings,
O'Malley

[OMalley]

Good! How have you been?

Lots of interesting articles these days, but hard to get out of "lurking mode";)