(Vanity) California Recall - A Fair And Balanced Look at FR

Me | me

[freedumb2003]

OK, I am so tired of all the same arguments over and over and over that I am not even going to the posts. In fact, I may be asking off the ping lists for this issue. Let me summarize EVERY SINGLE THREAD. If another thread opens on the California recall and Arnold discussion, please copy and paste the following: Please read he ENTIRE post before flaming

1. McClintock is "better" than Arnold.
   Pros:Across the board, this is generally accepted as true. McClintock has a very specific plan that is easy to understand and makes fiscal sense. He concentrates on the fiscal problems and has point-by-point plan for handling each of them. He has wisely pushed most social issues out of the way, except as how they have increased the burden. Even his desire to stop attractive illegal aliens is based on monetary issues. This is a slightly right-of-center position that has great appeal.
   Cons: McClintock doesn't know what he is up against and is making it sound too easy. This is also probably true, but is not, in itself, a compelling argument against him.
   Analysis: Point by point compared to all comers, I think most FReepers would support McClintock's position and vision.

2. OTOH, McClintock has such a small % that he, combined with Simon (now gone), are diluting the conservative vote, resulting in Perot Syndrome (or Ralph Nader Syndrome).
   Pros: In the realpolitik of today, this is true, but only if the election were held today. This is a sprint, not a marathon, and Arnold's apparent lead due to his vast fortune and automatic name-recognition factor may be overcome if McClintock's vision can be seen and heard by the electorate.
   Cons:The vitriolic amongst us scream "your vote will put Cruz Bustamante in Office!. There is credence in this in that attention taken away from a single candidate (presumably Arnold) waters down THAT side of the equation and resources and real and political capital are lost.
   Analysis: Whereas both sides of this argument are compelling, in the long run (i.e. 20 or 30 days from now), the water down theory is 100% correct. By 2 weeks from now, the conservatives and moderates MUST have a single candidate to stand behind.

3. Arnold is a RINO
   Pros:He has taken very liberal stands concerning Gay "rights," Abortion and other social issues. His "it is for the Children" tack and the last Proposition he rammed through that was, essentially, a tax to subsidize after-school programs smells suspiciously socialist.
   Cons:He voted for Prop 187 and has suggested (although not delineated) his conservative leanings in other areas. He has been a consistent supporter of the republican party, and its causes, for many years. He is a friend to both Bushes and has always "been there" for Republicans and Conservative Causes.
   Analysis:Arnold is a fiscal conservative and a social liberal (but less to the left than the Democratic legislature). There are 2 major wild-cards that will answer this charge: His final stand on the Driver's Licenses for Illegal Aliens (although Congressman Tom Campbel l(R), who is one of Arnold's advisors indicated on Friday that Arnold is against this bill) and what happens when social programs have a fiscal cost (such as the redundant health programs that California has that mimic the Federal programs, but have no Residency requirements). The suggestion that Arnold is a Kennedy in sheep's clothing is merely a canard used by the most shrill and vitriolic

4. Davis must go and Bustamante must not replace him
   These are axiomatic and are the meeting point for all FReepers (and all right-thinking people).

Virtually ALL the arguments fall into one of these points. Is Arnold a RINO who will hurt California? Is McClintock hurting the Right's chances and will get The Grave-Digger, apprentice butcher, racist Bustamante in?

My Summary Analysis

Remember, in California a Conservative is anyone to the right of Karl Marx. Bustamante will begin the transition of California to Aztlan and he will do everything in his power to get as many illegal aliens as possible over the boarder to overwhelm California and de-facto truly make California into Mexifornia. It will truly be a Socialist state to the Left of Canada and there will never be a chance to look back.

IMHOWe, as conservatives MUST do the following:

We should support McClintock in his bid to surpass Arnold and, should that happen, attempt to convince Arnold to stand down.

A better scenario is that Arnold takes McClintock into his inner circle and that McClintock ends his run.

Should it get within 2 weeks of the election and we have both Arnold and McClintock and McClintock trails significantly, we MUST throw our support for Arnold. Even a RINO will be better than Bustamante, who is worse than Davis (see notes above).

My biggest concern is what to do if both Arnold and McClintock are viable. In this instance, the California Republican Party (remember them? They are still AWOL) must step in and get it down to one viable candidate. Anything less is a catastrophe.

In the meantime, the threads on this whole thing are just repeating themselves.

"My 2 cents" is already taken. So I sign off with

"I'll buy that for a Dollar"

FD2003

[freedumb2003]

I agree with most of your analysis, except the hysterial Aztlan bunk. You are too smart to wave the anti-Hispanic flag.
I know as many hard-right Hispanics as I do hard-left Socialists.
Stay away from tripping the Latino alarm

My WIFE is from Mexico, so don't give me that "some of my best friends are...." stuff. It is a documented FACT that Bustamante was a member of MECHA, which calls for the return of Alta California (part of Aztlan) to Mexico. And he has been given chances to distance himself from that stance and has not.

He IS a racist and he DOES want to return California to Mexico.

[freedumb2003]

Tom would be a prime candidate to unseat BOXER!

You know, THAT is a great idea. We should be grooming Tom for THAT seat and use this run to set the foundation.

I'll be adjuting my political calculus with that as the target.

Thanks and I'll spread the word!

[Republic If You Can Keep It]

A better scenario is that Arnold takes McClintock into his inner circle and that McClintock ends his run

That sentence says it all.

Do we want to win or not?

[Dog Gone]

I'll buy that for a dollar.

[freedumb2003]

Nice summary. Would you mind doing one for the creationist / evolutionist threads?

Sure, but Tom Weller in Science made Stupid (Hugo Award winner 1986) already covered that ground much better than I could ever have:

Evolutionism
Evolutionists hold that man arose by the same gradual process as other creatures. This belief follows from the principle that the same laws of nature apply to man as to the rest of the physical world.

The Evolutionist Model... demonstrates how an ancestral "ape-man" could have evolved an upright stance and humanlike physiology. However, it does not explain the tremendous expansion of the intellect and other intangibles that characterize humanity.

Creationism
Creationists, on the other hand, believe that man was created instantaneously by a cosmic powered super-being from another dimension. This belief is based on ancient, heavily retranslated writings taken from badly decomposed fragments of scroll found in a series of caves in the middle-east.
The Creationist Model ... explains the advent of human intelligence by ascribing it to divine fiat in the creation of the first humans, Adam and Eve. A major weakness is that it fails to account for the origin of Adam and Eve's daughters-in-law.

A MODERN SOLUTION
Pictured below, we see how an open-minded approach to these conflicting theories can lead to the resolution of a major problem in each.

REQUIRED NOTICE: This account meets the statutory and regulatory requirements of all U.S. state, county and municipal school boards and districts for works dealing with the origins of man and is warranted to be suitable for use as a teaching tool in accordance with the Guidlines for De Facto Ideological Uniformity of the American Textbook Publishers Association.

[Interesting Times]

I thank you.

Perhaps after you've rested a bit, we can turn your formidable powers loose on the conservative / libertarian thing...

[ted1003]

Hi Freedumb2003,

I agree with you on 95% of your analysis. However, if on the weekend before the election the polls show something like Arnold 30 Cruz 28 Tom 11 the only choice for me is to vote AGAINST the recall (as much as I dislike Davis) and vote for Arnold. With Cruz, CA is finished for good. With Davis still in we can maybe get on a liferaft before we exit California (the sinking Titanic). All said, I think McClintock is the best so far.

Ted (currently in San Francisco Bay Area)
in November 2003 (Cobb Couty, Georgia)

[freedumb2003]

LOL

[CyberAnt]

FOX and Rush are talking about it - which tells me it's not a fairy tale - as you appear to be saying. I'm not aware of Cruz's involvement in the organization, but I do know it exists and its purpose.

[CyberAnt]

I never had a problem with Adam & Eve's daughter-in-laws. Adam and Eve lived to be 800 (I believe), which would allow for hundreds upon hundreds of children. Just because the Bible only names 3 of them, doesn't necessarily prove that's all the children they had. Could the in-laws have come from cousins - 10-12 removed. In European aristocracy, it was well-established that families married within families. I wonder where that idea came from ..??

[Ernest_at_the_Beach]

Difficult choices!

calgov2002:

Gray Must Pay
Cruz Must Lose

calgov2002: for new calgov2002 articles. 

Other Bump Lists at: Free Republic Bump List Register

[TheAngryClam]

There are the multiple tax hike "mistakes" that Arnold's aides (not just Buffet) have made.

They look alarmingly like trial balloons. Particularly since a lot of Arnold's staff are former Wilsonites, responsible for the huge 1991 tax increase.

[tubebender]

Headline Oct 8th ... DAVIS BEATS RECALL Still Governor...

[kellynla]

"Difficult choices?" Come on, Ernest! Time to get off the fence! Nothing difficult here. There is only one person who has a plan to balance the budget and do so without raising taxes and/or fees. Only one person who will void the 42 billion dollars in electrical contracts. Only one person who will cut 2/3's of the cost of workmans' comp. Only one person who will rescind the triple car tax. And Tom Mcclintock will do all this before lunch on October 8, 2003. Aunold is asking for 60 days to learn the job. We don't have 60 days to train a governor. McClintock will do more in 60 minutes than Aunold will do in 60 days. What's so difficult? The last RINO CA elected signed the largest tax bill in CA history before he got his seat warm in the governor's office. And that RINO happens to be Aunold's co-chair and advisor??? VOTE4MCCLINTOCK or pay$ the con$equence$! http://www.tommcclintock.com

[freedumb2003]

There is a subtle humor there -- you have to look for it.

[McGavin999]

The thing I keep stressing, and the thing everyone seems to ignore, is what happens AFTER the election. We already know that the dems control both houses of the legislature. Tom is a good man, but he lacks charisma and when he tries to go to the people, they will pretty much ignore him.

The advantage Arnold has is his very star power. He's going to be able to make a lot more headway with the people.

We have to decide this sooner then just two weeks before the election. This is NOT a primary, it's the election itself and there's just a little more then 30 days until the election. I'd say we have to make a decision within the next week.

[CounterCounterCulture]

I have that book! Fresno (FR's HQ) even makes it in there.

[CyberAnt]

I guess I'm too tired to see it; sorry!

[185JHP]

X42 times two didn't ruin the USA. CB won't be able to ruin CA. As a matter of fact, his behavior in Sac. might be nasty enough to stir up a lot of decent people that haven't been voting because none of the (R) candidates have been attractively conservative enough. It was X42's nastiness that got us the House - not that we've gotten as much as we wanted/expected. Disclaimer: I would get to observe CB from a distance.

[Spiff]

Arnold is a fiscal conservative and a social liberal

You can say it a million times but that doesn't make it true. Who says Arnold is a "fiscal conservative"!!? What office has he held that demonstrates that he is a "fiscal conservative"? What has he ever done that makes him a "fiscal conservative"?

He was the primary force behind Proposition 49 two years ago. His support of Prop. 49 definitely makes me question whether he's a "fiscal conservative" like everyone wants to claim.