(Vanity) California Recall - A Fair And Balanced Look at FR

Me | me

[freedumb2003]

OK, I am so tired of all the same arguments over and over and over that I am not even going to the posts. In fact, I may be asking off the ping lists for this issue. Let me summarize EVERY SINGLE THREAD. If another thread opens on the California recall and Arnold discussion, please copy and paste the following: Please read he ENTIRE post before flaming

1. McClintock is "better" than Arnold.
   Pros:Across the board, this is generally accepted as true. McClintock has a very specific plan that is easy to understand and makes fiscal sense. He concentrates on the fiscal problems and has point-by-point plan for handling each of them. He has wisely pushed most social issues out of the way, except as how they have increased the burden. Even his desire to stop attractive illegal aliens is based on monetary issues. This is a slightly right-of-center position that has great appeal.
   Cons: McClintock doesn't know what he is up against and is making it sound too easy. This is also probably true, but is not, in itself, a compelling argument against him.
   Analysis: Point by point compared to all comers, I think most FReepers would support McClintock's position and vision.

2. OTOH, McClintock has such a small % that he, combined with Simon (now gone), are diluting the conservative vote, resulting in Perot Syndrome (or Ralph Nader Syndrome).
   Pros: In the realpolitik of today, this is true, but only if the election were held today. This is a sprint, not a marathon, and Arnold's apparent lead due to his vast fortune and automatic name-recognition factor may be overcome if McClintock's vision can be seen and heard by the electorate.
   Cons:The vitriolic amongst us scream "your vote will put Cruz Bustamante in Office!. There is credence in this in that attention taken away from a single candidate (presumably Arnold) waters down THAT side of the equation and resources and real and political capital are lost.
   Analysis: Whereas both sides of this argument are compelling, in the long run (i.e. 20 or 30 days from now), the water down theory is 100% correct. By 2 weeks from now, the conservatives and moderates MUST have a single candidate to stand behind.

3. Arnold is a RINO
   Pros:He has taken very liberal stands concerning Gay "rights," Abortion and other social issues. His "it is for the Children" tack and the last Proposition he rammed through that was, essentially, a tax to subsidize after-school programs smells suspiciously socialist.
   Cons:He voted for Prop 187 and has suggested (although not delineated) his conservative leanings in other areas. He has been a consistent supporter of the republican party, and its causes, for many years. He is a friend to both Bushes and has always "been there" for Republicans and Conservative Causes.
   Analysis:Arnold is a fiscal conservative and a social liberal (but less to the left than the Democratic legislature). There are 2 major wild-cards that will answer this charge: His final stand on the Driver's Licenses for Illegal Aliens (although Congressman Tom Campbel l(R), who is one of Arnold's advisors indicated on Friday that Arnold is against this bill) and what happens when social programs have a fiscal cost (such as the redundant health programs that California has that mimic the Federal programs, but have no Residency requirements). The suggestion that Arnold is a Kennedy in sheep's clothing is merely a canard used by the most shrill and vitriolic

4. Davis must go and Bustamante must not replace him
   These are axiomatic and are the meeting point for all FReepers (and all right-thinking people).

Virtually ALL the arguments fall into one of these points. Is Arnold a RINO who will hurt California? Is McClintock hurting the Right's chances and will get The Grave-Digger, apprentice butcher, racist Bustamante in?

My Summary Analysis

Remember, in California a Conservative is anyone to the right of Karl Marx. Bustamante will begin the transition of California to Aztlan and he will do everything in his power to get as many illegal aliens as possible over the boarder to overwhelm California and de-facto truly make California into Mexifornia. It will truly be a Socialist state to the Left of Canada and there will never be a chance to look back.

IMHOWe, as conservatives MUST do the following:

We should support McClintock in his bid to surpass Arnold and, should that happen, attempt to convince Arnold to stand down.

A better scenario is that Arnold takes McClintock into his inner circle and that McClintock ends his run.

Should it get within 2 weeks of the election and we have both Arnold and McClintock and McClintock trails significantly, we MUST throw our support for Arnold. Even a RINO will be better than Bustamante, who is worse than Davis (see notes above).

My biggest concern is what to do if both Arnold and McClintock are viable. In this instance, the California Republican Party (remember them? They are still AWOL) must step in and get it down to one viable candidate. Anything less is a catastrophe.

In the meantime, the threads on this whole thing are just repeating themselves.

"My 2 cents" is already taken. So I sign off with

"I'll buy that for a Dollar"

FD2003

[freedumb2003]

This is it folks. Thousands of posts and I haven't seen anything not covered here. But of course, you may think otherwise....

[CatoRenasci]

Your post is probably the most sensible I've seen. Unless the 'pubbies unite behind one serious candidate, we're gonna see Senor Cruz as el jeffe.

I suppose I could be convinced that McClintock could be the frontrunner, if there was enough consistent neutral polling to that effect. However, as a longtime student of California politics and demographics, I just don't see McClintock winning. The winner in major California elections is determined by what one commentator called "the capricious million" some 35 years ago: the 'moderate' voters who are turned off by appeals they see as ideological and who want to vote for someone they can feel good about. As I read this race, Arnold is the only 'pubbie who won't give those middle voters agina, and therefore, I think he's gonna be the guy. If McClintock really wants influence, he should get together with, and behind, Arnold now, while he has something to bargain with, and make a deal for conservative influence.

[freedumb2003]

Arnold is the only 'pubbie who won't give those middle voters agina

Alas, that's pretty much were things stand. Let's all pray that The Terminator and The Tominator get together.

Thanks

[NormsRevenge]

As I read this race, Arnold is the only 'pubbie who won't give those middle voters agina, and therefore, I think he's gonna be the guy.

---

And he won;t give anyone his agenda... other than what we can see and hear thru his cutesy soundbites and Prop 49 support and offering of bringing back businesses to support socialist programs.

Yup..Arnie IS the man ... NOT.

[DoctorZIn]

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[truth_seeker]

Overall a good analysis. With such a sharp mind, it is disappointing you resort to a stupid statement like this one:

"Remember, in California a Conservative is anyone to the right of Karl Marx."

[Tacis]

"Davis must go and Bustamante must not replace him - These are axiomatic and are the meeting point for all FReepers (and all right-thinking people). "

NOT SO! In the long run (through 11/04) we are much better off with Davis in place as governor. California, as a terrible example of ultra-left wing dem rule is an advantage in the 2004 national election. If Davis is replaced by an honest person, we don't have that contrast.

But, that is now out of our hands. Your analysis is sound. McClintock is doctrinally better, Arnold more likely to win. We will never convince the purists amongst us to support Arnold and so it is likely to Cruz will win. Not the worst thing that could happen so long as the brave Republicans in the legilature hold their ground.

And, we will have our chance should Nader be coaxed from protecting his considerable wealth to run and/or Sharpton, McKinney, Moseley-Braun, etc. have the bravery and guts to buck the dems' racial hatred and run a ticket.

[freedumb2003]

. With such a sharp mind, it is disappointing you resort to a stupid statement like this one:

Remember, in California a Conservative is anyone to the right of Karl Marx."

Guilty as charged. can't get Hyerbole past FR ("I happen to know this is the Lupin Express!")

But seriously, a middle-lefter in California is a right-winder in the California Political Calculus. My point is that we need someone who can just keep the ship leaning less left.

[freedumb2003]

we are much better off with Davis in place as governor

Perhaps I should have added this. You are right in one of two senses:

1. If California sinks into the Pacific and the dems are the Captain, they get the blame forever.
   Response: I am ON that ship and don't want to drown for political gain. Also, if we can send Davis packing, California could again be an important state in the political world (at this point it is conceded as being Dem/Liberal and of no particular importance).
2. Bustmante is worse than Davis
   Response: Yep, but we stil h ave to let the Left know they can't just run renegade like a bunch of French or Canadians spending money they don't have on social programs that are essentially vote-buying grabs. This one is painful for all right-thinking conservatives, but is a cost I think most would and will pay.

[conservatism_IS_compassion]

When you say that you can't accept failure to defeat the Democrat, you abandon all leverage--that decision is the decision to move to the left to accept the lesser evil.

Not trying to get McClintock is the planted axiom within "Bustamonte can't be allowed to win."

I was just mentioning today that "We can't afford to have a deficit" was Republican dogma before Kemp-Roth, and the planted axiom within that was, "Democrats will always get the credit with the public for 'social spending' and Republicans will always get the blame for high taxes to pay for it." That is, the planted axiom within the "taxes must be raised to cover spending" decision is "Republicans never are in the majority."

[Diddle E. Squat]

California Recall - A Fair And Balanced Look at FR

Watch out, O'Reilly may demand that Fox News Channel sue you...

[freedumb2003]

When you say that you can't accept failure to defeat the Democrat, you abandon all leverage--that decision is the decision to move to the left to accept the lesser evil.

Yes, that is my anabshed position. And I think it is the position of all right thinking californians. But there is still the "let the ship sink with the Left at the Helm" argument. But I stand behind my analysis and conculsions.

[freedumb2003]

Watch out, O'Reilly may demand that Fox News Channel sue you

Thanks for getting the joke. Note that I waited until after that smarmy Franken jerk (who might have been funny 20 years ago) paved the way for me to use the term. But "I'll buy that For a Dollar" is mine until the Groove Tube folks sign on.

[tophat9000]

I like you analyze...

I would add my own fear is Arnold is not a fiscal conservative ....anymore

Peoples politics change .....Reagan was a Liberal Dem at one time..... Goldwater near the end of his life started going left (people forget he did work with Norman Lears’ group “People for the American Way”)

Also note that both Reagan & Goldwater were pulled the other direction by there wives

Alot of people though McCain was the second coming of Reagan at one time ...... Ted Turner was consider a conservative once.... and CNN was also to when it first started ......

Jim Rob is an ex Dem... so are a lot of freppers ....... and in most case it takes a while for that person to realized and make the change

At the very least watch Arnold’s moves ... and his backtracks... don’t assume

[freedumb2003]

I would add my own fear is Arnold is not a fiscal conservative ....anymore

Peoples politics change

True and a valid concern. But absent any actual facts that suggest Arnold would turn the worm and present the MECHA leanings of Cruz B. I would submit this is not a criterion that should be used to evaluate this election.

I noted above my wild-card analysis, but at the end of the day I wouldn't let too much speculation guide your vote (assuming you are a current Californian).

[CyberAnt]

Should it get within 2 weeks of the election and we have both Arnold and McClintock and McClintock trails significantly, we MUST throw our support for Arnold. Even a RINO will be better than Bustamante, who is worse than Davis.

I agree .. but .. I think Tom is a better candidate! However, I will say this again for whatever it's worth. Tom would be a prime candidate to unseat BOXER! By the time the recall is over - HE WILL BE KNOWN STATEWIDE!! Sounds like a plan to me.

[Interesting Times]

Nice summary. Would you mind doing one for the creationist / evolutionist threads?

Thanks,
I.T.

[CyberAnt]

Sorry, I forgot to put quotes around the first paragraph.

[CyberAnt]

Sorry - msg was for freedumb2003

[Precisian]

I agree with most of your analysis, except the hysterial Aztlan bunk.

You are too smart to wave the anti-Hispanic flag.

I know as many hard-right Hispanics as I do hard-left Socialists.

Stay away from tripping the Latino alarm.