Alabama SC justices cave, order Ten Commandments removed

AP on Fox News ^ | 8-21-03 | AP on Fox News website

[rwfromkansas]

MONTGOMERY, Ala.

[ppaul]

You're welcome to believe whatever you wish. Are you willing to let me do the same?

Reminds me of working as an EMT.
A guy is dying from a self-inflicted stabbing.
He hollers, "Leave me alone! Leave me alone!"
What do you do?
Just turn around and let him die?
Or do you try to save him?

[inquest]

What do you think it means when he says that considering Hinduism or Buddhism to be "religion" for purposes of the 1st Amendment would be an "erroneous assumption?"

Not for the purposes of the first amendment in general, but for the purposes of the establishment clause. He has acknowledged that Hindus and Buddhists have a God-given right to practice their faith. That's the free-exercise clause.

Under the establishment clause, he's saying that it refers to the establishment of particular sects. In other words, he's saying it's not possible to "establish" Christianity in general at the expense of other religious traditions, because Christianity is not a religious organization; it's a point of view. If you want to disagree with him, that's fine, but it doesn't make him a fanatic. It's well within the views of many at the time of the founding.

[missyme]

You have no idea when I joined

[m1-lightning]

What relligion was Moses when he recieved the tablets?

I believe in the Old Testament, there are references to using the colors gold and purlpe in the worshipping of god. So I guess gold and purple colored anything should be court ordered too. These people are nuts. Remember this quote from Reagan? -

"I know here that you will agree with me that standing up for America also means standing up for the God who has so blessed our land. I believe this country hungers for a spiritual revival. I believe it longs to see traditional values reflected in public policy again. To those who cite the first amendment as reason for excluding God from more and more of our institutions and everyday life, may I just say: The first amendment of the Constitution was not written to protect the people of this country from religious values; it was written to protect religious values from government tyranny." - Ronald Reagan, Address Before a Joint Session of the Alabama State Legislature in Montgomery, March 15, 1982.

[lugsoul]

Are you actually taking the position that "religion" means one thing for the Establishment Clause and another for the Free Exercise Clause?

[libravoter]

missyme
Since Jul 3, 2003

--


Oh! A swing and a miss by the newbie!

[HurkinMcGurkin]

"I think immigrants ruined this country that came after 1970."

Amazing! Where did that date come from? Was that the year you were born or something?

I am starting to wonder if some people have trickled over here from Stormfront or if we have a population of Christian Identity nuts here.

[jethropalerobber]

Israel has the right to make Judiasm the law of there land do we not have the same right?

no thanks.

[ppaul]

July 3, 2003

[rwfromkansas]

In regards to the extent that the First Amendment applies to the states:

After the Barron case ruling the states were not responsible to adhere to th First Amendment, in Permoli v. Municipality No. 1 of the City of New Orleans (1845), the Supreme Court reaffirmed the doctrine that the First Amendment did not restrict the actions of states. The court said the following in its ruling:

"There is no repugnancy to the constitution, because no provision thereof forbids the enactment of law or ordinance, under state authority, in reference to religion. The limitation of power in the first amendment of the Constitution is upon Congress, and not the states."

The Slaughterhouse cases (1873, after the 14th Amendment) found that states have the right to restrict some rights and that state citizenship is different from federal citizenship. Thus, in this case, the 14th Amendment was not considered to make the BOR apply to the states.

Furthermore:

State debates on the 14th Amendment do not express even a hint of a belief that the amendment would make the BOR apply to the states, thus prohibiting more religious expressions by states than was forbidden before. There is no evidence the people debating state ratification were worried or were pleased that this might be a result of the amendment.

In Davis v. Beason, the Supreme Court REJECTED one defense that the 14th Amendment applied to the states the First Amendment and that polygamy was thus protected.

The Blaine Amendment failed, with NOT ONE PERSON speaking up and saying "hey, we don't even need this, as the 14th Amendment already does it."

It was not until 1947 that the establishment clause was applied to the states by the SCOTUS.

I believe it was 1925 IIRC that the SCOTUS first applied the BOR to the states (free speech first).

[Happy2BMe]

TEN COMMANDMENTS

I. Thou shalt have no other gods before me. II. Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image. III. Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain. IV. Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. V. Honour thy father and thy mother.

VI. Thou shalt not kill. VII. Thou shalt not commit adultery. VIII. Thou shalt not steal. IX. Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour. X. Thou shalt not covet any thing that is thy neighbour's.

Are the Ten Commandments still relevant?

In American Society, who most would desire to see them eradicated from public view?

#1: The U.S.S.C.

#2: Every State Supreme Court.

#3: Every public polititian.

#4: The Democratic Party.

#5: The Republican Party.

#6: Murderers.

#7: Thieves, extortionists, Labor Union Chiefs, every CEO of the Fortune 500.

#8: The NEA, NAACP, AFLCIO

#9: Homosexuals, lesbians, pedophiles, pornographers, web hosts, Hollywood, National Foundation of The Arts.

Add a few more . . .

[MineralMan]

missyme
Since Jul 3, 2003

Sure he does. It's right there on your profile.

[HurkinMcGurkin]

You have no idea when I joined

Untrue. What you mean is that we have no idea when you were last banned or how many other screen names you have.

[usadave]

Hey, the law's the law. Nobody's above the law.

Actually this case is about a court ruling based on a convoluted interpretation of what the U.S. Constitution says.

[HurkinMcGurkin]

See #493

[MineralMan]

""I think immigrants ruined this country that came after 1970."

Amazing! Where did that date come from? Was that the year you were born or something?

I am starting to wonder if some people have trickled over here from Stormfront or if we have a population of Christian Identity nuts here."

I don't know about that, but I'm really, really curious where the date 1970 came from. I guess immigrants from 1969 are OK, but not ones from 1971. Pretty strange, it seems to me.

But, everyone's entitled to an opinion. They're just not entitled to have their opinion taken seriously.

[concerned about politics]

A respect for law rooted in Christian morality is the only reason that our constitution hasn't been wholly trampled upon by now, but with this taking off of the gloves, there is no hope that any remaining portion of government restraint will be respected.

True. The Democrats are filibustering judges because they believe in a moral base. Only thieves, whores, homosexuals, felons, murderers, earth worshipers, need apply for judicial seats.
The U.S.A. has become the U.S.S.A.

[inquest]

A historical display does not implicate the First Amendment Establishment Clause, does it?

We weren't talking about the establishment clause; we were talking about the equal-protection clause. If posting a religious view while excluding other religious views violates equal protection, does posting a secular view while excluding other secular views violate equal protection? That's what this boils down to.

Not to mention that the courts do not now, nor have they ever issued advisory opinions about what might happen in some hypothetical situation

You need to read more court opinions and arguments. They constantly ask out loud what the implications would be of a particular ruling - If we allow X does it mean we have to allow Y? If we prohibit A does it mean B must go, too? They simply can't do their jobs otherwise.

[missyme]

I am a American Citizen , I was born here and my father was a European immigrant. I believe in G-D and consider myself to be a tolerant person. I see the whole country going down the tubes year after year. My comments on this thread is regarding the Ten Commandments and how we need to live by them which will give us a safer happier place to live in.

[lugsoul]

Arnold got in just under the wire.