Posted on 08/11/2003 8:57:56 AM PDT by fishtank
PDF file.
Should threats of destruction be the driving force behind saving the souls of men? I don't think so. Force is a very poor motivator for actual change...you are more likely to get temporary external change, and no real internal change, which I imagine God really dislikes. What Christ did himself, and what I think real Christians should emulate, is say that "Yes, punishment awaits the wicked. But you can do something today that will save you from your self-chosen death and annialation. Christ is the payment for what you have done in the past, and you can change your nature from Dark to Light by accepting his gift, and choosing every day to try to do the right things."
It is wrong to say, "Ye are Dammed to Hellfire for failing to Blindly Accept Parable as Fact!" It would be more in God's Kingdom to say, "Humans tend to choose evil things that feel good, but you can be saved through the sacrifice of Jesus Christ and remade anew!" If you were outside the Faith, which message do you think would win more souls?
"You must be reading my mail." Tom Waits
Because lasers confuse the ancient Hebrews?
What is usually the goal of punishment ...
1. To teach the sinner a leason ... well hell is forever
So even if the sinner learns his lesson ... so sorry Charlie your here forever (I don't buy it)
2. To teach others what will happen to THEM if they don't do as they are told (re: my post about fear and intimidation)
My personal guess ... a sinner is put back here (or some other inhabited planet) to learn more till they get it ALL right.
BUT then again we all may just be parts of just one big consciousness ... each learning their own individual parts to be assimulated within the collective consciousness ... after all is not "God" all knowing ...
This treats evolution as if it were some sort of moral law, which it is not. If it were, the best human being would be the one who had 16 successful children.
I remember a priest in highschool(12 years of Catholic school!!!) told us that if anyone even heard anything about Jesus Christ and did not convert to Christianity, then they would go to hell. Simple blanket statements like that really make me mad.
What you believe doesn't bother me with regard to them because as you'll remember, it was "believed" by scientists that the coelacanth had 4 legs, crawled out of the ocean and began walking; but, otherwise went extinct. It was "believed" that they had lungs. It was stated as though factually that they were extinct. And their fossils were determined to be markers for the 70,000 year range. They didn't evolve, they don't have legs or lungs, and they don't walk on land - nor are they extinct, nor do they look like they were portrayed. And they exist in at least two oceans of the world and generally stand on their heads on the ocean floor foraging for food. It isn't a stretch to imagine large bouyant creatures. For you maybe; but your crowd tends to swallow elephants whole on word it can be done while straining and gagging on fleas because you can't believe you can swallow one. IE, given the track record to date, opinions aren't worth much from your crowd cause they get proven wrong (ala the baseless belief that t-rex was cold blooded).
2. If they weren't extinct, you would think that some of these 260 cultures would mention dinosuars. Wouldn't you?
How do you know they don't?
3. Great, lets assume they were all extinct. So based on post #123, all dinosaurs had to have lived within a couple of hundred years.
More like a couple thousand. The flood was relatively recent. The egyptians do not date back to 3000bc. That's the official line; but, the official timeline has been pretty solidly challenged.
4. Unknown factors like the dinosaurs really died off millions of years before Noah was born. I'd say that is a likely factor.
There is no data to support millions of years other than circular arguments that don't add up. None. I was referencing things you and I would not have any way of knowing about. The age of dinosaurs is knowable in the near term. Long term postulations don't add up. The near term do and generally in a rather tidy fashion that doesn't require the universe be stood on it's head and the laws of physics rewritten or the ceolacanth to have lungs and legs when it demonstrably has neither.
Another future Nobel Laureate on FR. Ain't this site great. But those guys who hand out the prize are real stuffed shirts. In your acceptance speech, better say, "There are no data."
With all due respect, I don't assume that people are absolute morons and can't tell the difference between a flooding basin and one that covers mountains. Elitists do; but, the leaps elitists make to overcome any simple explanation is unreal to begin with.
So even though you believe the ark myth, you accept evolution? "[all] the animals of the time."
No, I don't believe in evolution. I believe in the laws that are observeable - the which support diversity; but, devolution - not evolution. Animals of the time would mean anything not waterborn and not extinct already. Seven dogs means seven dogs, not one of every type imaginable within the breed. Dna takes care of the rest. Seven cats means seven cats. Not seven tabbys, seven siamese... Dna does the rest. DNA provides diversity not mutation upon mutation. And that is why evolution has never been witnessed - even in a species claimed to be between 70 and 400,000 years old and still living, though stated by your crowd to be extinct. Gotta run. Shift is over.
Considering how long they'll last after they collapse, it's more like the throbbing (dare I say "pounding"?) adolescent phase.
2. Please show me cave drawings of dinosaurs. Since they obviously died out before Egyptian society(per your statement). You would think that a dinosaur would have been the subject of at least a couple paintings, since buffalo and antelopes take up the vast majority.
3.The egyptians do not date back to 3000bc
OK, so lets say the flood happened 3000B.C. So that is 5K years ago. Since the entire universe is 6K years old, then the dino's had to have only lived for 1K years at most. But you say it was a couple thousand years. So that pushes back the creation of the UNIVERSE to well over 6K years. Sounds like you do not believe your 6K year old universe brothers. So do you try to convince them that their timetable is wrong?
4. There is no data to support millions of years other than circular arguments that don't add up.
Tell me how light from the Andromeda Galaxy that is 2.3 million light years away is hitting us now, if the universe is only 6K-10K(your out of the norm timeframe) years old?
A muzzled and/or mute God is no God at all.
John 1
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 The same was in the beginning with God.
3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
Have the Flintstones been reliably dated? I drove through Bedrock (CO) a couple of months ago, but didn't see any large toothy dinosaurs. They may have been up at the jazz festival in Telluride, though.
You misjudge that I judged when I merely pointed out the obvious rational difficulties that arise when one says that the Bible starts out with a fairytale. When does the Bible stop being a fairytale?
Parables are not fairy tales. Your mind and your heart lead you to the intended moral lesson. Legalistic interpretations of what must be believed are precisely equivalent to the legalistic interpretaions of the Law that were replaced by the Great Commandments.
That assumes you have the first clue about the actual nature of T-Rex's rather than the assumed nature. Elephants are huge and rather dangerous looking and are not in the least slow when spooked. But they don't run around eating people. Most of what we hear about dinosaurs is hyped to get people interested so that research can be continued by robbing the public coffers.
And btw, the bible does mention a gargantuan beast. It has a name given that has common usage even now. Try reading.
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