Interviewed by Couric, Pro-Robinson Bishop Says "We Respond to 'Reason,' Not only to Scripture"

The Today Show

[governsleastgovernsbest]

In the wake of sexual misconduct allegations against Gene Robinson that have postponed a vote on his candidacy for Episcopal Bishop of New Hampshire, Today Show host Katie Couric just completed an interview with two bishops with opposing views on the issue.

Bishop Thomas Shaw of Massachusetts is a strong supporter of Robinson's elevation. Bishop Edward Salmon of S. Carolina is opposed.

The most telling exchange came in response to Couric's question as to why or why not Robinson should be elected Bishop.

Bishop Salmon stated: "The answer is simple. Robinson's election would violate the tradition of the Church, the teaching of Scripture, and the constitution of the Church."

Given an opportunity to respond, did Bishop Shaw contest Salmon's reading of Scripture or the Episcopal constitution? Not at all.

Shaw's response: "We don't only respond to Scripture. We respond to reason, and to Jesus's message of love. This is a new time."

[Texas_Dawg]

Again, this is tantamount to expressing the view that Scripture does not represent immutable truth for all times.

Yep. And at that point it has no more authority than Mother Goose.

[governsleastgovernsbest]

Thanks for the interesting historical background on the three-legged stool Scripture, tradition and reason. Shaw is clearly seeking to elevate reason above the other legs of the Church.

[governsleastgovernsbest]

GMTA. See #19!

[Texas_Dawg]

Aren't the allegations against Gene Robinson that his gay youth group's website promoted gay porn and that he made several passes at his male parishioners? If so, why hasn't he crawl under a rock and this disappeared?

Even if all that turns out to be true, why would it matter to his supporters? He has already divorced his wife and moved in with his gay lover. So now he promotes pornography and pedophilia? So what? They can just white out these sins as well with this new theology of theirs.

[TUX]

Compare the words "straight is The Way and narrow is The Gate" to the hogwash dished out by liberal theologians. Once in the gray area of tradition and reason(whose?) scripture goes out of the church in its importance.

[STONEWALLS]

"And it also is occurring in many other mainline denominations (Methodist, Presbyterian, Lutheran, United Church of Christ) and to my mind accounts for their declining membership."

.....it's definately going on in the Presbyterian Church USA....their liberal agenda and obsession with social issues has killed the church....the average Presbyterian now is 57 years old and climbing....

[ishabibble]

Most of my fellow Catholics have had an epiphany since our Church was attacked and very nearly destroyed by the homosexuals. Now the Anglican Church is locked in the same battle. Different methods. One goal. Destroy all religion and let the sinners rule the world.

[The Great RJ]

I seem to recall that this type of thinking was tagged "situation ethics" --if it feels goods do it.

[reasonseeker]

Leviticus 20:

9 " 'If anyone curses his father or mother, he must be put to death. He has cursed his father or his mother, and his blood will be on his own head.

10 " 'If a man commits adultery with another man's wife-with the wife of his neighbor-both the adulterer and the adulteress must be put to death.

If reason shouldn't trump Scripture, then why isn't death row filled with adulterers and children as well as homosexuals, as the Bible clearly commands?

[50sDad]

For someone outside of the Faith, you have an incredible depth of spirit. I suppose that this viewpoint, that is, "believe what you believe without compromise" is akin in a way to GOP'ishness. (I personally am offended by the Dem's I know who protected Bill, knowing what we know, simply because he could advance their cause.) Either we believe in Truth or don't, but don't sacrifice what you claim to believe in for the sake of getting what you want. Bravo!

[governsleastgovernsbest]

Exactly. And for that matter, people are entitled to adopt such ethics if they so wish.

But what bothers me is the intellectual bankruptcy in trying to claim that such an ethical approach can somehow be squared with unequivocal religious rules, which by definition are unchangeable.

[sirchtruth]

If reason shouldn't trump Scripture, then why isn't death row filled with adulterers and children as well as homosexuals, as the Bible clearly commands?

Because you do not believe you do not have the spirit...you have been separated by sin. Until you accept, and seek truth from Jesus Christ you will not see.

Is that reasonable enough for you?

[Maria S]

You may not be a Christian, but you gave an excellent reason for not supporting homosexual priests!

Same subject...sort of. Just heard Doug Stephan and Nancy Skinner discussing this subject...apparently DNC talking points right now are to continue deriding this homosexual issue in favor of hitting hard on Bush's failures in Iraq. If Illinois voters put Nancy Skinner in the US Senate next year, liberals will have another strong voice!

[50sDad]

Because the coming of Christ fufills the Law...we are no longer under sentence of death because of Christ's rebirth. Christ spared the woman who was going to be stoned for adultery, that is, having immoral sex outside of the bonds of marraige (a particularly appropo example, considering that this particular sinner abandoned his wife and family to have unnatural sex with another man, see the endless Scripture arguements here elsewhere.) But on the other hand, the part of the tale that people ignore, although Christ forgave her after she acknowledged who He was, he told her "Go and sin no more."

The power of death has been revoke, the Old Testament Law has been made complete, but not "a jot or tittle" (not a letter) of the Law has been removed. Wrong is still wrong, for the Hebrews decended from Mosaic Law, or the Gentiles who were adopted into the family. Right is still right and wrong is still wrong...but Death has been replaced by Christ's mercy. You won't be stoned today for 'dissing your parents...or for being a homosexual bishop who denies the Law and insists you know better than God. But sin is still sin, and is still wrong...and God still disapproves.

[ru4liberty]

Shaw's response: "We don't only respond to Scripture. We respond to reason, and to Jesus's message of love. This is a new time.

Reminder to Bishop Shaw: (Mal 3:6) For I [am] the LORD, I change not

[mj1234]

SO TRUE!

made the hair on my neck stand up -

"" THIS IS A NEW TIME! ""

Yes a new time to denounce scripture and embrace EVIL.

The Catholic Church may still fail, there are titanic

forces of good and evil fighting for our very souls.

[wideawake]

Ah, Richard Hooker's Ecclesiastical Polity.

The greatest work of theology produced by the Anglican Communion - the Anglican equivalent of the Summa Theologiae in my opinion.

I also think that along with John Henry Cardinal Newman, Hooker is the greatest master of English prose style.

I read EP in an independent study course at college. A very rewarding experience.

[sirchtruth]

Because the coming of Christ fufills the Law...

Boy does my response look like piddle compared to yours.

Very well reasoned.

[governsleastgovernsbest]

The Bible created extremely high evidentiary standards for the imposition of the death penalty, intentionally making it very difficult to actually impose. The Biblical call for the death penalty for various crimes of immorality is understood as expressing great condemnation for the acts involved. That remains true to this day.

[Bigg Red]

...view that Scripture does not represent immutable truth for all times.

***

For people like this jerk, Scripture means whatever they choose it to mean.