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Diabetes Diet War (Hint: High carbing doesn't work)
US News ^ | 7/14/03 | Dara Mayers

Posted on 07/08/2003 12:20:27 PM PDT by Nov3

Diabetes diet war
The nutrition advice given to most diabetics might be killing them

By Dara Mayers
The bible says "make starches the star." That's the Diabetes Food and Nutrition Bible, published by the American Diabetes Association. "Grains, beans, and starchy vegetables form the foundation of the Diabetes Food Pyramid. The message is to eat more of these foods than of any of the other food groups." For 17 million Americans with diabetes, diet is a crucial part of treatment, And what the ADA bible preaches, many doctors, nutritionists, and patients believe.

But what if the ADA's high-starch diet--another way of saying high-carbohydrate--is not healthy for people with diabetes but harmful to them instead?

This possibility is now the source of heated debate in the diabetes community. It is "the most controversial aspect of diabetes treatment today," says Scott King, editor-in-chief of Diabetes Interview magazine. How controversial? "Malpractice!" is how physician and diabetes specialist Lois Jovanovic, chief scientific officer of the Sansum Medical Research Institute in Santa Barbara, Calif., describes conventional high-carb nutrition advice.

Excerpted, click for full article

(Excerpt) Read more at usnews.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society
KEYWORDS: atkins; diabetes; diet; health
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To: Ladysmith
I'm going camping this weekend and am trying for the second time to camp and do Atkins...

Yes, celery for your cream cheese is an excellent choice -- you could even try different flavors.

I had a tuna & egg salad for breakfast today. It was delicious. I took an envelope of tuna and mixed it with chopped celery, chopped egg, mayo & a tablespoon of bran (not bran cereal -- miller's bran, the kind that used to be thrown away after they milled the flour to make Wonder Bread! Adds a little fiber.) I put a lettuce leaf on my plate and arranged 1/4 of a tomato in a circle with some thin slices of cucumber. Then I put the tuna salad in the middle and garnished it with thinly sliced radish.

I had two thin slices of pork loin left over from dinner the other night that I added to the side of this concoction. This made a small mixing bowl's worth of salad. My husband & I ate two scoops and I have leftovers for another meal.

This made a delicious and different breakfast that added up to practically NO carbs -- just the little bit that was in the bran and the meager amount of veggies. I did not need to eat again until about 1:30 PM when I had another MacDonald's California Cobb salad. The carb count did not disturb me because I had hardly used anything.

Dinner tonight was a Southwestern Chopped Sirloin steak in a restaurant which I split with my husband. That's a huge (almost platter sized) piece of chopped sirloin smothered in lightly sauteed onions, tomatoes, mushrooms, and green peppers. (I live in Wisconsin where meals are served LARGE -- easily split in two and still too big.)I got through the day with about 15 or 16 carbs.

So, if you don't want to eat the bread, I suggest putting your tuna spread in a tomato on a plate. A little harder to eat, but very refreshing. Just a thought.

261 posted on 07/14/2003 6:20:28 PM PDT by afraidfortherepublic
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To: Ladysmith
BTW, how are you feeling physically since you've started this?

So far I'm fine -- perhaps just a little tired. Not nearly as bad as I used to be on other diets -- even the first week of Weight Watchers way back when. I hope to start slowly with an exercise program this coming week. I'm really very badly out of shape, but I won't overdo it. Somethimes I feel like I am not concentrating on my work, but that could be for many reasons -- not the least of which is that I have to figure out what to eat at the next meal! LOL.

262 posted on 07/14/2003 6:26:52 PM PDT by afraidfortherepublic
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To: Ladysmith; jennyp; sinkspur
BTW, I'm keeping a journal on My Atkins Website. I sent them my two questions and I got canned answers that obviously had been composed by a coumputer doing a word search. Oh, well.

On the Communion wafers they wrote back to go ahead and eat them because they are thin and it is for a religious reason! I nearly fell off my chair laughing. What if I'd asked if I could have a thin wafer of chocolate? The Indians used to do that for religious reasons....

I did not get an answer about digestible carbs at mcDonalds -- Ladysmith had a better answer. I got about three pages of advice that did not pertain to anything except buying Atkins aids. Free Republic is a better source of info, IMO.

263 posted on 07/14/2003 6:35:38 PM PDT by afraidfortherepublic
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To: afraidfortherepublic
What if I'd asked if I could have a thin wafer of chocolate?

Pure chocolate, like Godiva or the expensive bars you find in gourmet shops, is on the Atkins diet. Not a lot of it, but chocolate is OK.

264 posted on 07/14/2003 6:38:56 PM PDT by sinkspur
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To: auggy
"I packed on 40 lbs for no apparent reason. I am also on Synthroid for thyroid problems."

Well, there's your reason right there. I, too, gained about 50# for "no apparent reason" until my doctors FINALLY realized that my thyroid had stopped working (it took me sleeping 23hr/day, gaining about 1#/day despite no appetite, and a huge goiter for them to catch on to the problem).Unfortunately, going on thyroid medicine does not automatically shed those pounds--they're real weight just as if you'd overeaten. I finally, over the course of a few years, had shed about 40 of those 50# until my wt started creeping back up and my energy level sank to new lows. Guess what? It was the generic thyroid hormone that the docs had put me on to save money wasn't doing the trick. Problem is that thyroid is one of the few drugs where brand name and generic are not equivalent. Auggie, you should check to make sure you're really on Synthroid and not some generic version.

So, now i'm back to looking at losing another 20#. sigh...also, after years of swearing by high complex carbs, i tried a variation of the Atkins diet. NOT easy at all for me because I'm a vegetarian. So, I can't load up on steak or bacon or any of the usual things people eat on a low carb diet. And yes, i was starving for most of the 3 months i was on it and obsessed about food. and yes, I also craved carbs. I lost about 8#--not much by most folks' standards here--and it was pure agony. I eat a lot of vegetables and get my protein from soy-based foods. Soy does NOT satiate you! Oh, and I was exercising about 1.5hrs/day and barely making it because i was so tired all the time. I wish someone in the know would publish a really good version of a low carb for vegetarians.
265 posted on 07/14/2003 7:04:40 PM PDT by MightyMouseToSaveThe Day
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To: MightyMouseToSaveThe Day
Thank You! I am glad to get your advice. I had been going to a Diabetic doctor that found my thyroid was out of wack. She put me on real Synthroid ,after my insurance tried and did force me to take the generic. That was 2 years ago. I had forgotten all about the difference in the 2 drugs. I just checked my meds and it appears to be the real McCoy.

I had blood work done several months ago ,shortly after I packed on the weight. My thyroid test was normal. I still think it was responsible for the weight gain, although, I can't prove it. It definitely drains your energy. I had diabetes and thyroid problems at the same time and didn't know it. I still worked daily, but I had to force myself. I feel better now, but still have those days where I am feeling drained.

Thanks,,again Mighty Mouse!

266 posted on 07/15/2003 4:45:20 AM PDT by auggy (http://home.bellsouth.net/p/PWP-DownhomeKY /// Check out My USA Photo album & Fat Files)
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To: mewzilla
"What ever happened to just eating right and exercising?"

The problem is... how do you define "eating right"? What might be right for you, could in fact, be totally wrong for me.
267 posted on 07/15/2003 4:55:25 AM PDT by myrabach
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To: sinkspur
Ah...something to look forward to. I can almost taste it -- Godiva chocolate.....mmmmmmmmm.
268 posted on 07/15/2003 1:53:54 PM PDT by afraidfortherepublic
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To: afraidfortherepublic; MightyMouseToSaveThe Day
Something to do when I get back, check out the online journal...

Good to hear about the synthoid. My brother-in-law takes that for his out-of-whack thyroid and I wasn't completely positive that was ok. He's losing nicely on Atkins.

The tuna dinner sounds great also - reminder to check it out again later.

Just what don't vegetarians eat besides beef. I have a few Atkins cookbooks and will look when I get back.

(Can you tell I'm rushed?!) ;o)

269 posted on 07/16/2003 4:03:25 AM PDT by Ladysmith (Land of the Free Because of the BRAVE!)
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To: Ladysmith
Ladysmith, very very kind of you to check out your Atkins book for vegetarian, low carb recipes. What a lady you are! This vegetarian doesn't eat beef, poultry, pork, fish, or anything derived from animals. My protein comes from soy sources. Does that help you? Any recipes would be greatly appreciated!
270 posted on 07/16/2003 7:25:32 AM PDT by MightyMouseToSaveThe Day
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To: sinkspur; jennyp; SamAdams76; Ladysmith; A_perfect_lady; Katie_Colic
OK. I need some encouragement here. I have been slavishly following the Induction Phase of Atkins for one week. I weighed this morning for the first time since I started and I haven't lost a single pound! I'm really bummed!

I've eaten less than 20 carbs every day and drunk at least 9 glasses of water + decaf tea (not counted). I'm not exercising yet, but hope to start slowly at that tomorrow. How long should I stick with this odd way of eating?

271 posted on 07/16/2003 9:43:09 AM PDT by afraidfortherepublic
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To: EggsAckley
"Adele Davis' books "

So what is her basic premise?
272 posted on 07/16/2003 9:48:51 AM PDT by oldcomputerguy
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To: oldcomputerguy
From Amazon:
Product Details

Hardcover: 334 pages

Publisher: Harcourt; Revised edition (June 1970)

ASIN: 0151503044


sorry about the formatting. No time to improve it. Other Editions: Paperback | All Editions

Average Customer Review: Based on 10 reviews. Write a review.

Amazon.com Sales Rank: 346,489

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- What's Your Advice? Is there an item you'd recommend instead of or in addition to this one? Let the world know! Enter the item's ASIN (what's an ASIN?) in the box below, select advice type, then click Submit.

I recommend: in addition to this product instead of this product -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Spotlight Reviews (What's this?)

Write an online review and share your thoughts with other customers. 10 of 10 people found the following review helpful: "Let's Eat Right..." great long-standing nutrition advice, January 24, 2002 Reviewer: A reader from Plano, IL United States I've used "Let's Eat Right to Keep Fit," on and off, for 30 years. It's the best "no fad" nutrition advice for everyday living I have ever seen.

What I like about the book is that Adelle tells me what to expect when I eat or don't eat certain foods. She tells me the EFFECTS of what I choose to eat, mental, physical, general outlook, and health symptoms such as skin tone or heart rate.

For example, the relationship of protein to blood sugar is discussed (the more protein you eat, especially at breakfast, the more stable your blood sugar level stays throughout the day -- fewer highs and lows), and that has served me well over the years in planning for high-performance days that require an alert mind and body all day long.

These "old" studies still apply -- I think the book was written when they were studying vitamins intensely, as she cites a lot of studies on this with human volunteers, and what happens if you are missing just 1 vitamin, B6 for example.

She puts together this type of information:

- mental state
--- depression
--- irritability
- physical symptoms
--- sore mouth
--- dry, cracked lips
--- magenta tongue!
- vitamins
- minerals
- soils
- oils
- protein
- food preparation and growth style
--- organic
---frozen
--- fresh
- supplements
- What to Eat in certain cases:
--- to recover from long-term chronic stress
--- to keep your blood sugar level stable
--- each day
... and she walks you through how to establish a daily diet (you can do the quick view or spend time and do it more completely).
You can take one or two tidbits of info, or really read what happens at the cellular level (i.e., the relationship of SALT to POTASSIUM -- inside each cell and outside each cell - it's fascinating).

I recommend the hardcover book. You may want to skim it, get what you need today from it and apply it, and put the book on the shelf.

Sure as can be, pretty soon you'll remember, "didn't I read in Adelle..." and you'll want to reference it again.

You know why you'll do that? Because your mind will be functioning better, and you'll have a better outlook on life, be more curious about new things, and have the energy to do something like write this book review, which I've never done before!

By the way, she says if you put several healthy choices of food in front of a young child, she'll pick the ones her body needs! I found this to be true, and I do it myself -- if those apricots are calling to you (for me it was the dried sweetened mangoes), it may mean you NEED something they have (vit. A).

Some things we go to our shrinks for can be helped by adding a few key nutrients -- look up depression, for example. We may still need therapy, but we won't be fighting the battle at the cellular level in addition to dealing with our histories!

Was this review helpful to you?

Finally, a nutrition manual for everyone, October 21, 2001 Reviewer: Greg Dempster from Laguna Beach Although I risk the limits of good taste, I am compelled to say that this is the only useful nutrition book I've read in the last 40 years. I began to apply the Davis nutrition principles in my teen's and have been thankful for the energy, stamina and shameless good health I've enjoyed since. This book is readable, accessibile, and clearly describes human biochemistry in a way that anyone can understand. Davis does not present fad diet propaganda as every other writer seems to do; instead, she describes the delicate and fascinating work of the food we eat and its effect on our bodies. She describes the process of digestion, the action of trace minerals and vitamins on enzymatic reactions, and the nutrional losses to food when it is processed or overcooked.

Did you know that calcium cannot be absorbed in the gut unless it is dissolved in the presence of fat and hydrochloric acid? Davis explains why. Most importantly, there is a chapter in the revised edition devoted to serum cholesterol and its relationship to lecithin and magnesium levels in the body, heavily documented with research that is still valid today.

This ought to be required reading for every person concerned about heart disease! The biochemistry she presents is the same biochemistry still being taught in colleges today.

I must disagree with other readers who believe that Davis' information is dated. Many of her principles have withstood the test of time and are again being validated by current research and practice, sometimes depressingly so. She spoke out long ago against low fat/low protein/high carbohydrate diets that have became fashionable of late. If her advice had been heeded, this country might not now be facing the highest rates of obesity, diabetes, and other diet-related diseases that are epidemic in America.

Of course, 'Lipitor' and 'Lecithin' may start with the same letter in the alphabet, but you can patent the former and not the latter. While this might explain the economics of our present situation, it does not begin to present the tragedy of it.

All her assertions are backed by copious references to research, and there is a comprehensive index. It is the only book of all those in print that I would recommend to someone truly interested in achieving health through nutrition. --This text refers to an out of print or unavailable edition of this title.

Was this review helpful to you? All Customer Reviews Avg. Customer Review: Write an online review and share your thoughts with other customers.

A Classic that is still relevant, August 11, 2002 Reviewer: motherlodebeth (see more about me) from Sierras of California We own this in both hardback and paperback and its nice to see that it is still in print, and with a few changes. First became aware of Ms Davis in the late 60's and she was the one who was at the forefront of the whole foods movement here in California and what would later become known as holistic living and the belief that supplements like vitamins and minerals could alleviate and even rid a plethora of medical concerns. That it is additives, coloring and preservatives in foods that cause problems including hyperactivity and obesity.

She was ahead of Ornish and McDougal and all the others when it came to teaching moderation and healthy oils like olive oil, as well as the need to drink more water. This is a book I still recommend.

Was this review helpful to you? "Let's Eat Right..." great long-standing nutrition advice, January 24, 2002 Reviewer: A reader from Plano, IL United States I've used "Let's Eat Right to Keep Fit," on and off, for 30 years. It's the best "no fad" nutrition advice for everyday living I have ever seen.

What I like about the book is that Adelle tells me what to expect when I eat or don't eat certain foods. She tells me the EFFECTS of what I choose to eat, mental, physical, general outlook, and health symptoms such as skin tone or heart rate.

For example, the relationship of protein to blood sugar is discussed (the more protein you eat, especially at breakfast, the more stable your blood sugar level stays throughout the day -- fewer highs and lows), and that has served me well over the years in planning for high-performance days that require an alert mind and body all day long.

These "old" studies still apply -- I think the book was written when they were studying vitamins intensely, as she cites a lot of studies on this with human volunteers, and what happens if you are missing just 1 vitamin, B6 for example.

She puts together this type of information: - mental state

--- depression

--- irritability

- physical symptoms

--- sore mouth

--- dry, cracked lips --- magenta tongue! - vitamins - minerals - soils - oils - protein - food preparation and growth style --- organic ---frozen --- fresh - supplements - What to Eat in certain cases: --- to recover from long-term chronic stress --- to keep your blood sugar level stable --- each day ... and she walks you through how to establish a daily diet (you can do the quick view or spend time and do it more completely). You can take one or two tidbits of info, or really read what happens at the cellular level (i.e., the relationship of SALT to POTASSIUM -- inside each cell and outside each cell - it's fascinating). I recommend the hardcover book. You may want to skim it, get what you need today from it and apply it, and put the book on the shelf. Sure as can be, pretty soon you'll remember, "didn't I read in Adelle..." and you'll want to reference it again. You know why you'll do that? Because your mind will be functioning better, and you'll have a better outlook on life, be more curious about new things, and have the energy to do something like write this book review, which I've never done before! By the way, she says if you put several healthy choices of food in front of a young child, she'll pick the ones her body needs! I found this to be true, and I do it myself -- if those apricots are calling to you (for me it was the dried sweetened mangoes), it may mean you NEED something they have (vit. A). Some things we go to our shrinks for can be helped by adding a few key nutrients -- look up depression, for example. We may still need therapy, but we won't be fighting the battle at the cellular level in addition to dealing with our histories!

273 posted on 07/16/2003 10:06:16 AM PDT by EggsAckley ( "Aspire to mediocracy"................new motto for publik skools.............)
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To: afraidfortherepublic
HANG IN THERE!! My mother had the same problem, for three weeks she was on it and nothing, nothing, nothing. She was practically in tears. Then suddenly, 4 lbs fell off practically overnight. There was almost an audible "thump" they fell off so fast. She and I have both noticed that for us, it isn't a steady pound-a-day loss. It's plateau, plateau, plateau... thump! Plateau, plateau, plateau.... thump! I have spent the last 8 months losing in 5 lb intervals. I spent all of November at 150, then suddenly 145 till Christmas... then 140 till GroundHog's Day... 135 till Easter...

God I wish Labor Day would hurry up. LOL!! ;^)

274 posted on 07/16/2003 10:20:45 AM PDT by A_perfect_lady (Let them eat cake.)
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To: Dutchgirl
stevia, from GNC

Try Splenda from the grocery, I actually like it better than sugar in tea. May be the same thing, not sure.

275 posted on 07/16/2003 10:29:06 AM PDT by oldcomputerguy
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To: jennyp
Does butter have better fats than margarine? They're both solid at room temperature, so I assumed they both had lots of saturated fats.

Margarine generally has trans-fats. Trans fats are created by taking nice clear vegetable oil and bubbling hydrogen gas thru it. After doing this for a while, the nice clear vegetable oil looks like nearly solidfied motor oil. That is what you are eating when you eat trans-fats. At least we evolved as a species eating ordinary saturated fats.

276 posted on 07/16/2003 10:51:50 AM PDT by oldcomputerguy
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To: yhwhsman
Not to mention, you feel so much better, you sleep better, you think better, and I can even see better.

I started a modifed Adkins in April and lost about 5 pounds so far, not a lot but I am still slowly dropping, and I cheat on weekends.

I have had trouble breathing at night for many years now. I though it was due to a broke nose combined with being overweight. However when I lost the excess water I was carrying, my breathing at night became no problem at all.

I now wonder how many asthma cases are caused by mainlining flour and sugar.

277 posted on 07/16/2003 10:59:50 AM PDT by oldcomputerguy
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To: A_perfect_lady
Thanks for the boost. My sirits are low anyway because I can't reconcile my month end figures. The consultant is due here any minute and I don't need to be depressed about anything extra.

I did chick with my pharmacist this morning and he assures me that the medications I take do not hinder weight loss -- not that I believe him. At least my BP meds are not the dreaded Beta blockers or diuretics -- something else. It's just gotta be my age that causes my body to cling to these extra pounds. I'll hang in there 2 more weeks, but I'm going to cut the portion sizes too and step up exercise.

278 posted on 07/16/2003 11:08:47 AM PDT by afraidfortherepublic
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To: afraidfortherepublic
Don't cut back too much, if you start feeling hungry and miserable you might fall off the wagon completely. Drink lots of water, breathe deep, and ... you do feel better on the diet even without seeing official results yet, don't you? I did. I didn't get the shakes 3 hours after eating, didn't get weak and sweaty when the sugar low hit... is it like that for you too?
279 posted on 07/16/2003 11:13:21 AM PDT by A_perfect_lady (Let them eat cake.)
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To: Ladysmith
"potassium supplements may be the way to go - any suggestions of what and how much daily?"

Potassim is necessary but excess is not w/o consequence.
Potassium chloride is what they use to stop hearts.
Light salt is in fact potassium chloride
Most supplements provide about 99mg of potassium per tablet.


You can monitor your normal pulse and stop taking it if it drops too low relative to normal as potassium will lower you pulse rate or has been my experience.
280 posted on 07/16/2003 11:19:13 AM PDT by oldcomputerguy
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