3rd Circuit: N.J. school can punish boy for playtime threat(zero tolerance MEGA barf alert)

freedom forum ^ | 6.23.03 | associated press

[freepatriot32]

SAYREVILLE, N.J. — The Sayreville school district did not violate the rights of a kindergartner it suspended three years ago for threatening to shoot his friends as they played a game during recess, a federal appeals court ruled.

The June 19 ruling by a three-judge panel of the 3rd U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals affirmed a federal judge’s decision last year that dismissed a lawsuit filed by the boy’s parents.

Scot and Cassandra Garrick sued the Middlesex County school district after their son and three other students were suspended following the March 15, 2000, incident in which their child told his friends, “I’m going to shoot you.”

The children were playing at the time, pretending their fingers were guns and saying to one another, “I want to shoot you,” the Home News Tribune of East Brunswick reported. Their words were overheard by classmates, who told teachers.

The Garricks were the only parents to bring civil action against the district, claiming their son’s free-speech and due-process rights had been violated. They sought unspecified damages and asked that the suspension be removed from their son’s school record. The child was enrolled in private school following the incident.

Students do not “shed their constitutional rights to freedom of speech or expression at the schoolhouse gate,” the court said. But, the panel said, there has to be a balance between the “freedom to advocate unpopular and controversial views in the classroom” and “society’s countervailing interest in teaching students the boundaries of socially appropriate behavior.”

Sayreville’s superintendent of schools, Dennis Fyffe, termed the federal appeals court ruling a “very nice victory for the district.”

Fyffe said the four boys were suspended under the district’s zero-tolerance policy.

“These students were suspended under the school policy that deals with general school behavior,” Fyffe told the newspaper. “This was not cops and robbers.”

Nisha Mohammed, a spokeswoman for the Rutherford Institute, the Virginia-based nonprofit group that is representing the Garricks, said the parents were outraged by the ruling and are determined to appeal.

The group’s founder, John Whitehead, said parental notification could become a central issue on appeal since the Garricks were not notified and therefore could not attend the hearing that led to their son’s suspension.

“This was overreaction and over-punishment,” Whitehead said. “It’s part of the zero-tolerance mentality of no questions asked and you just throw (students) out.”

Court records show that school principal Georgia Baumann, who was named in the civil suit, did attempt to contact parents before holding the hearing.

“There is no need to delay between the time the notice is given and the time of the hearing,” court papers say.

The fact that the boys admitted to the principal that they were playing guns, “fulfilled the requirements of due process which can be satisfied in a case like this by informal procedure,” the court ruled.

[phasma proeliator]

"I guess that means I'm violent, a warmonger, and a sexual predator. Sheesh."

Yeah - you and me both. It's a good thing that there's somebody (3rd Circuit) watching to make sure no other kids fall down the same deep, dark hole you and I have.

[Constitutionalist Conservative]

Our 5-year-old son Daniel wouldn't last a day in a school like this.  You give him an arbitrary object, and the next thing you know he's Buzz Lightyear of Star Command, making laser noises as he waves the object around.

Oh, did I mention that we'll be homeschooling him?  :-)

[MineralMan]

"Example: Quite often I tell my son that I'm going to shoot him if he doesn't straighten up and fly right, but taking a gun and actually shoot him is not even in my mind."

Interesting. I remember when I said that about someone at about age 5. My father, a lifelong hunter, a WWII vet, and an avid collector of shotguns, took me aside and told me in no uncertain terms that I was never to use that particular threat unless I had a firearm in my hands and was prepared to use it.

Telling someone you're going to shoot them is not a good idea. It trivializes the action. Actually, threatening to kill someone in jest is a bad idea all around.

Do not threaten what you are not willing to carry out. That's what my Dad taught me.

[eyespysomething]

(now known as cowboys and muslims)

Actually, my boys call it Army and Muslims

[eyespysomething]

We cannot judge without including race in every equation.

Unless you're the police, then its profiling and wrong

[ladylib]

Today they are praised. Welcome to Amerika.

[phasma proeliator]

"Army and Muslims"

That works too! ;-)

[ladylib]

My cousin's 3-year-old has a piece of a toy railroad track that is sort of pointed at the end. He calls it his knife. It's almost always in his possession and at the ready if he has to lunge at a wild animal or has to "cut" a piece of rope.

Boys today are being raised by the state as wussies. God help us all.

One of my cousins has the sense to send her boy to an all- boys school where the teachers and administration realize that "boys will be boys."

[Uncle Miltie]

"We cannot judge without including race in every equation."

"Unless you're the police, then its profiling and wrong."

Recruiting snitches must be a bitch....Whoops! That's insensitive to irritable womyn.

[longtermmemmory]

The idiot teacher who is offended by a child pointing a finger has to be put through "tollerance" training.

Divided, parents are EASY to pick off one by one. It does not matter that parents INDIVIDUALLY are outraged. The PTA does not matter because they have been absorbed into the NEA style infrastructure. The solution is for VOTING parents to form a unified organization and speak with ONE voice against pc stupidity.

I also believe ALL counties/municipalities/school districts need a law which FORCES them to deduct private and home school students from their student population. Now school board do not factor private school students in their budget formulas.

[tom h]

And ... [horrors!] I'm also a conservative evangelical Christian. The conclusion is clear -- pretend to shoot guns as a boy and you turn into a [gasp!] Christian.

[longtermmemmory]

You are right. Boys ARE being raised as wusses. Its by design. Individual strength of character in boys is a threat to feminists. (don't even start on ritalin. BTW I saw a commercial for ADULT ADD drugs yesterday!!)

Women have lost the art of raising a son. Fathers have lost the ability to set an example. Private school or homeschooling is more and more becoming the only viable way to protect your children.

[Walnut]

THE PROBLEM IS THEY WILL NOT LET KIDS BE KIDS. THEY ARE SUPPOSED TO ENTER GRADE SCHOOL AS ADULTS AND SHOULD KNOW BETTER. THE NEXT TIME THIS KID GETS CAUGHT BEING A KID IN SCHOOL THEY BETTER PROCECUTE HIM TO THE FULLEST EXTENT OF THE LAW. THEY ARE EVIL LITTLE BRATS AND DESERVE EVERYTHILNG THEY GET. pleasse somebody tell me WHATS GOING ON IN THESE PRINCPLES MINDS? FOR gOD SAKES. GET OUT OF THE CHILD BUSINESS ALTOGETHER IF THEY CAN'T TELL THE TEACHERS THAT TOLD ON THE KIDS TO ,"GET A LIFE"

[Walnut]

oH, i GET IT. THEY ARE PRACTICING ON THE KIDS FOR WHEN THEY FACE A REAL ENEMY. YEA, THAT MUST BE IT. OTHERWISE THEY LOOK FOOLISH. WAIT , THEY DO LOOK FOOLISH. GIVE ME A BREAK. i HOPE THE KID DOESN'T GET INTO A FIGHT (LIKE i HAVE AND ALL MY FRIENDS HAVE AT ONE TIME OR OTHER IN SCHOOL) THEY WILL PROBUBLY GET LIFE WITH - OUT PAROLE.

[Walnut]

AMEN

[Maigrey]

I'm helping homeschool my nephew, and he's at the age where he is in need of a strong male father figure. He didn't have this type of role model at school, and he's *fortunately* getting it from Grampa. He will listen to me (strong authority figure) but sometimes, boys need men to show them how to behave and act.

[unixfox]

Fyffe said the four boys were suspended under the district’s zero -tolerance common sense policy.

[Ed_in_NJ]

So, if he said "Go to Hell," the zero-tolerance policy would have allowed the school to execute the kid?

[Ohioan]

Students do not “shed their constitutional rights to freedom of speech or expression at the schoolhouse gate,” the court said. But, the panel said, there has to be a balance between the “freedom to advocate unpopular and controversial views in the classroom” and “society’s countervailing interest in teaching students the boundaries of socially appropriate behavior.”

The balance the Court refers to, here, sounds totally inapplicable to a case of little boys playing a shoot 'em up type game. You have to be a very goofy Leftist to believe that there is anything socially inappropriate for little boys to be playing this type of game. What planet are these Judges and school officials from?

I guess that coupling of Judges with wacked out school officials, disqualifies me from ever practising in that Circuit; but, frankly, if they see themselves sitting down to tea with the Mad Hatter & the rest of the crew, that Alice found down the Rabbit hole, I don't expect that I could do a client much good in their Court. Reality is obviously not one of their strengths.

William Flax Return Of The Gods Web Site

[baseballfanjm]

So the kid MUST be on his way to being a mass murderer. After all, he pointed his finger while playing a cops and robbers type game and said "I'm gonna shoot you". His finger must have been a pretty powerful weapon. Of course, no sane individual has EVER pointed his finger as a child, pretending it to be a gun. I swear, his kid should be locked up.