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Powerful Senator Endorses Destroying Computers of Illegal Downloaders (Orrin Hatch)
AP ^ | 6/17/03 | Ted Bridis

Posted on 06/17/2003 2:54:06 PM PDT by Jean S

WASHINGTON (AP) - The chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee said Tuesday he favors developing new technology to remotely destroy the computers of people who illegally download music from the Internet.

The surprise remarks by Sen. Orrin Hatch, R-Utah, during a hearing on copyright abuses represent a dramatic escalation in the frustrating battle by industry executives and lawmakers in Washington against illegal music downloads.

During a discussion on methods to frustrate computer users who illegally exchange music and movie files over the Internet, Hatch asked technology executives about ways to damage computers involved in such file trading. Legal experts have said any such attack would violate federal anti-hacking laws.

"No one is interested in destroying anyone's computer," replied Randy Saaf of MediaDefender Inc., a secretive Los Angeles company that builds technology to disrupt music downloads. One technique deliberately downloads pirated material very slowly so other users can't.

"I'm interested," Hatch interrupted. He said damaging someone's computer "may be the only way you can teach somebody about copyrights."

The senator acknowledged Congress would have to enact an exemption for copyright owners from liability for damaging computers. He endorsed technology that would twice warn a computer user about illegal online behavior, "then destroy their computer."

"If we can find some way to do this without destroying their machines, we'd be interested in hearing about that," Hatch said. "If that's the only way, then I'm all for destroying their machines. If you have a few hundred thousand of those, I think people would realize" the seriousness of their actions, he said.

"There's no excuse for anyone violating copyright laws," Hatch said.

Rep. Rick Boucher, D-Va., who has been active in copyright debates in Washington, urged Hatch to reconsider. Boucher described Hatch's role as chairman of the Judiciary Committee as "a very important position, so when Senator Hatch indicates his views with regard to a particular subject, we all take those views very seriously."

Some legal experts suggested Hatch's provocative remarks were more likely intended to compel technology and music executives to work faster toward ways to protect copyrights online than to signal forthcoming legislation.

"It's just the frustration of those who are looking at enforcing laws that are proving very hard to enforce," said Orin Kerr, a former Justice Department cybercrimes prosecutor and associate professor at George Washington University law school.

The entertainment industry has gradually escalated its fight against Internet file-traders, targeting the most egregious pirates with civil lawsuits. The Recording Industry Association of America recently won a federal court decision making it significantly easier to identify and track consumers - even those hiding behind aliases - using popular Internet file-sharing software.

Kerr predicted it was "extremely unlikely" for Congress to approve a hacking exemption for copyright owners, partly because of risks of collateral damage when innocent users might be wrongly targeted.

"It wouldn't work," Kerr said. "There's no way of limiting the damage."

Last year, Rep. Howard Berman, D-Calif., ignited a firestorm across the Internet over a proposal to give the entertainment industry new powers to disrupt downloads of pirated music and movies. It would have lifted civil and criminal penalties against entertainment companies for disabling, diverting or blocking the trading of pirated songs and movies on the Internet.

But Berman, ranking Democrat on the House Judiciary panel on the Internet and intellectual property, always has maintained that his proposal wouldn't permit hacker-style attacks by the industry on Internet users.

---

On the Net: Sen. Hatch: http://hatch.senate.gov

AP-ES-06-17-03 1716EDT


TOPICS: Breaking News; Government; News/Current Events; US: Utah
KEYWORDS: copyright; cyberattack; cyberwar; download; filesharing; grokster; hatch; kazaa; krusgnet; mp3; napster; orrinhatch; riaa; rickboucher; rino; tyranny
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To: OpusatFR
I don't know. We take risks whenever we download anything. I don't have a dog in the fight, but seems to me that copyrights ought to be protected, despite the inherent issues in copyright matters (how many people can listen to one CD, for example? Can I lend a book to a friend? What if I read it to him? Can he tape me reading it to him? )
41 posted on 06/17/2003 3:31:57 PM PDT by NCLaw441
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To: freedom moose
but in that situation it would be hard to prove how the machine was destroyed too though, wouldn't it?

I would bet that the "damage" would have an unmistakable and traceable signature. The "forensics" necessary would be far easier than most police investigations. The owner of the damaged computer would then have the evidence and the identity of the perpetrator. Sounds like fodder for a big class action suit.

42 posted on 06/17/2003 3:32:23 PM PDT by Myrddin
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To: dts32041
You are right. He is just ticked off because no one is downloading the crappy songs he sings.
43 posted on 06/17/2003 3:32:37 PM PDT by CdMGuy
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To: JeanS
Senator Hatch has stood the Constitution's copyright clause on its head. The Founder's allowed for a limited copyright in the hope that it would encourage "Science and the Useful Arts" . Pay heed: the term USEFUL ARTS does not mean "art" -- entertainment -- rather it means in todays equivalent sense: Technology and Engineering!

Music, theater, plays, novels and newspapers were around in that period, and the theater was moneymaking. The intent of copyright was NOT to protect them.

The intent was to protect technology. Now HATCH has had enough of freedom, and favors the merchant nobility that has generations past been granted their titles of "copyright" nobility. All hail the Duke of Mickey Mouse! All hail the Earl of "Happy Birthday to You"!

44 posted on 06/17/2003 3:32:45 PM PDT by bvw
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To: OpusatFR
What is going on with this government anymore?

This idiot is on my Should Retire list. The day he turns the switch on this PC killer, the entire world is going to go black. Even the military will probably think we are under attack! He must be on somebody's payroll; don't you think?
45 posted on 06/17/2003 3:35:21 PM PDT by ARCADIA (Abuse of power comes as no surprise)
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To: Jhoffa_
I always knew there was something I didn't like about Hatch. I think he needs to buy larger shirts. The collers he wears are chocking off circulation to the brain. What is he going to think of next, have copy machines blow up if someone copys a page from copywrited materials.
46 posted on 06/17/2003 3:35:41 PM PDT by LauraJean (Fukai please pass the squid sauce)
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Comment #47 Removed by Moderator

To: NCLaw441
but seems to me that copyrights ought to be protected, despite the inherent issues in copyright matters

And it seems to me that accused copyright infringers should be considered innocent until proven guilty.

48 posted on 06/17/2003 3:37:03 PM PDT by ThinkDifferent
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To: Charles Martel
they can expect cyber-reprisals

If they destroyed 100,000 PC's or even erased their operating systems I suspect that Washington would witness more than cyber-reprisals.
49 posted on 06/17/2003 3:39:53 PM PDT by Arkinsaw
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To: JeanS
Ah, yes, damage someone's computer for downloading someone else's copyrighted material without permission!

Does Hatch realize exactly how much of that stuff in the Mormon genealogical archives has been purloined from copyrighted books and articles?

I thought Mormons were supposed to work on genealogy as part of their religious practice and here's Orin Hatch, just about the highest ranking elected Mormon in America, and he's saying "destroy their computers".

I think this one is going to have to go back to the workshop for a complete overhaul!

50 posted on 06/17/2003 3:40:29 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: ThinkDifferent
The RIAA reminds me of other large corporations that got so big they eventually tanked. Here, they have tacked on so many things to the price of a CD that it has gotten outrageously out of hand.
51 posted on 06/17/2003 3:41:47 PM PDT by rs79bm (The difference between Los Angeles and yogurt is that yogurt comes with less fruit ... R. Limbaugh)
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To: Charles Martel
If they actually get something like that passed and begin demolishing computers with impunity, they can expect cyber-reprisals. I'll bet that the anti-music industry brigade is made up of smarter computer geeks than the ones working for the RIAA, too.

If this were ever to happen, you'd see so much funny stuff happen to record co people...cancelled credit cards, late notices on everything, repoed cars, etc.

52 posted on 06/17/2003 3:42:18 PM PDT by Principled
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To: JeanS
I hope everybody who touts this guy as the next SCT Justice remembers his obvious regard for due process.
53 posted on 06/17/2003 3:42:50 PM PDT by agitator (Ok, mic check...line one...)
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Comment #54 Removed by Moderator

To: NCLaw441
Your choice, violate or not. And without your working computer, how would YOU prove the "government" did it?

I'm not downloading music, but that doesn't mean that my computer is safe from this proposed act of government sanctioned vandalism. I do rip music from purchased CDs to make mixes. If the vandals decide my legal rips are illegal downloads and destroy my computer, there will be hell to pay. I have the technical skill to do the forensic analyis to expose how the computer was damaged. I wouldn't hesitate starting a crusade to crucify the RIAA for any and all damage caused by their vandalism.

BTW, I have a room full of computers with various operating systems. The loss of one of them would only provide the catalyst and evidence to go after the vandals.

55 posted on 06/17/2003 3:44:57 PM PDT by Myrddin
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To: agitator
I hope everybody who touts this guy as the next SCT Justice remembers his obvious regard for due process.

God forbid.
56 posted on 06/17/2003 3:45:18 PM PDT by Arkinsaw
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To: Principled
"If this were ever to happen, you'd see so much funny stuff happen to record co people...cancelled credit cards, late notices on everything, repoed cars, etc."

If this happened there wouldn't be any record company people.
57 posted on 06/17/2003 3:45:23 PM PDT by ARCADIA (Abuse of power comes as no surprise)
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To: JeanS

Hatch: Set us up the bomb!

58 posted on 06/17/2003 3:45:50 PM PDT by isthisnickcool (Take my tag line! please!)
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To: ianincali
How about the "artists" charging up to $20 for a CD?

It's partly the artists, but more so the RIAA that sets the prices.
59 posted on 06/17/2003 3:45:57 PM PDT by rs79bm (The difference between Los Angeles and yogurt is that yogurt comes with less fruit ... R. Limbaugh)
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To: JeanS
The problem is who is going to police this. Who is going to make sure that the downloader knows it is an illegal song. Who is going to make sure that the technology isn't abused. This is letting the record companies be judge, jury and executioner.

60 posted on 06/17/2003 3:47:10 PM PDT by DannyTN (Note left on my door by a pack of neighborhood dogs.)
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