Should homeschoolers be required to take government-schools' assessment exams?

worldnetdaily ^ | 6/14/03 | wnd

[Chi Chi Tokyo]

Should homeschoolers be required to take government-schools' assessment exams?

Yes, how else can state assure kids properly educated?
Yes, some parents are just not qualified to homeschool
Yes, professional educators need to have oversight
Yes
Not sure
No
No, homeschoolers consistenly score higher than government-school students
No, government has no constitutional role in education
No, assessment tests are ineffective
No, and for sure kids shouldn't be taken away from parents who homeschool

[Chi Chi Tokyo]

Above is the text of the poll accompanying the Bryant story. If you feel compelled please go to the poll and vote.

[the gillman@blacklagoon.com]

The whole point of homeschooling is to save one's children from the bugeyed brainwashing socialists who run the dept of education.

[ml/nj]

I have an idea.

How about if government schoolers have to take exams designed by home schoolers.

ML/NJ

[boomop1]

They would raise the standard beyond reach for the nitwits in government schools.

[AlaskaErik]

Once they see homeschoolers achieving significantly higher scores than those in socialist indoctrination camps this plan will quietly fade away.

[Liberal Classic]

Hell no! If you can't educate your children how you see fit, then they're not really your children but wards of the state you are caring for at the moment.

[JenB]

The dirty secret is, the schools don't really want homeschoolers taking the standard tests, they just want the control.

I was homeschooled. When I was 15, I took the PSATs at the local high school and did so well I knew I'd be a National Merit Semifinalist. As it happened, I was the only one in the district that year.

The next fall, I wanted to take the SATs. We were not informed of when they would be offered. I found out one day before, and was barely able to take the tests.

Homeschoolers make public education look bad, and they know it. I have a feeling school districts are going to start making life as hard as they can on us. Forcing us to take their tests will just be another way.

[FrogMom]

I think they should for two reasons.

1. It will shame the Government schools.

2. There are bad apples in any barrel, if a rotton person is keeping a child at home and NOT schooling properly, it will show up at test time. This is protection for the child, not punishment for homeschoolers.

[Pure Country]

I think they should for two reasons. 1. It will shame the Government schools. 2. There are bad apples in any barrel, if a rotton person is keeping a child at home and NOT schooling properly, it will show up at test time. This is protection for the child, not punishment for homeschoolers.

Okay, let's talk about this a little bit. Why do the "tests" make a judgement on homeschoolers and not on public school kids? The schools post their tests as an average, that way it protects the privacy of the individual student. The homeschooler's gets posted and everyone, everywhere, knows exactly what the student scored on that test.

Homeschoolers choose to teach different subjects at different times. If tested, they would have to do what the publics do and "teach to the test.".....too much wasted time.

Why in the world let the gov't into the home? There are going to be good homeschoolers and bad homeschoolers just like in the public schools. Good teachers, bad teachers, good students, bad students...why should homeschoolers be scruntized as individual cases? If they are going to test....then average all homeschool kids together to publish.

I just last year finished homeschooling my youngest through high school. She did not do well on standardized tests, so I just didn't do them. She didn't know that she was "public school slow." She just finished her first semester of college with straight "A's"....(chemistry, history of civ, etc,) so much for the publics tests. One of the profs even emailed her individually and told her what a great student she was. He was very impressed with her logic and writing skills. He should know, she had to write 6 papers for him. ..then he found out that she was just sixteen and homeschooled. I'm very thankful that he did have that knowledge beforehand!

[PresbyRev]

What is schooling properly? And who develops standards to evaluate what is proper? The State? Government School Hacks?

[FrogMom]

First, I am PRO-homeschooling.

Second, there are bad people in the world. When we see a negative story (a real story, not a "spun" one) about a homeschooled child, we are peeking into a probably dysfunctional family. You know the kind - the super-controlling parent who doesn't want their abuse to be publicly seen - so they just keep the kid(s) home and call them "homeschooled". The kind that gives a bad name to ALL homeschooled kids.

Third, what's to fear? Any "real" homeschooled kid is going to clobber these tests anyway no matter what order the parent teaches their topics.

[FrogMom]

Okay, let's talk about this a little bit. Why do the "tests" make a judgement on homeschoolers and not on public school kids?

That's the point. It DOES make judgement on both of them - the homeschoolers will show up 99.9% of the indoctination center students.

The schools post their tests as an average, that way it protects the privacy of the individual student. The homeschooler's gets posted and everyone, everywhere, knows exactly what the student scored on that test.

I am not/was not aware that they post any students test scores publicly. When I've heard about test scores (maxed SATs, etc.), it's been because the student and/or parent made public statements about it, not the school.

Homeschoolers choose to teach different subjects at different times.

My contention is that a homeschooled kid is gonna shine at these tests no matter what order the parent is covering their topics!

If they are going to test....then average all homeschool kids together to publish.

Wonderful! This would accomplish the goal of high-lighting the lack of education promulgated at the indoctrination center beautifully. Great idea!

I just last year finished homeschooling my youngest through high school...One of the profs even emailed her individually and told her what a great student she was. He was very impressed with her logic and writing skills.

You did a great job!

[the gillman@blacklagoon.com]

The tests, once forced upon the homeschoolers, will be used as a weapon against them. The rulers of the education syndicate would deliberately flunk their entire pod of clones just to disparage a single homeschooler.

But they don't have to go so far.
All they have to do is put in questions like;

Hillary is the rightful queeen of the universe. true/false

The wrong answer on a few rigged questions like that could be used to torpedo the homeschoolers.

You can't make the mistake of thinking the educrats are either well intentioned or decent people.

[Joe Republc]

Look, I am all for home schooling. But the government does have a responsibility to see that minimum standards are being followed. So, yes, I think they should have to take tests. I'd prefer that public school kids would have to take the same minimum standard tests.

[KC_for_Freedom]

tests, once forced upon the homeschoolers, will be used as a weapon against them

This arguement would work to eliminate tests in public school at a time when we are asking for "accountability". It would seem that homeschool kids cannot be granted immunity from the same accountability. Either the tests are good or they are not, if not fix the tests, but let all students take them.

Many are not aware that in many districts, the schools are countering homeschoolers by sending a traveling credentialed teacher to visit with homeschooled students and ensure normal progress. If they are already doing this, the arguement for not testing becomes even weaker.

[the gillman@blacklagoon.com]

Once again, the idea is to get your kids out of the clutches of the socialists.

If I wanted my kids to be brain dead brainwashed commie clones, I would have sent them to the brainwashing camps in the first place.

The schools, which are utter failures, sucking up our tax money like a gargantuan sponge, should be held accountable to the taxpayers.

but neither you nor the state have a penny's investment in the education of my children therefore I owe you or the state NO accounting at all of their progress.

NONE.

If they have passed or failed it is our problem.

[Constitutionalist Conservative]

But the government does have a responsibility to see that minimum standards are being followed.

It does?

[KC_for_Freedom]

Yes, you are certainly right about the brainwashing. And I would not expect to see any socialism in the exit exam related to holding schools accountable. As a former teacher in public schools, I want to see the schools held accountable.

However as far as your rights as a parent, I agree, If you don't want the tests, ( and the chance to see where your child places, and most likely to show up the average public school score) then I agree it is your right. However I would still like to have a great many homeschoolers taking the same exam as the public schools. It would do them good.
Thanks for the comments.

[the gillman@blacklagoon.com]

Actually, in our case both kids took all the tests, precisely because I wanted to show up the school committee and the teachers who refused to see any need for advanced classes for bright students. Using my kids as unpaid tutors and the imposition of school uniforms (my kids earned their own money to buy their own clothes) is what made me yank them.

Had to go back and show the goons that my home school had one hundred % national merit scholars, SAT aces, and Ivy acceptance (neither chose to go ivy)opposed to the town which never had any of those things.

The town resisted homeschooling at first, but they had no legal standing and I am far more formiddable than a few dozen bugeyed commies and forty thousand sheeple.

If it came to a fight between me and the town, I'd still be here and they wouldn't.

I think everyone should take the tests, as you say, since most homeys show up the government camps big time, but the most important thing IMO, is to keep the socialists in their places and their hands off your kids.

[PresbyRev]

My objection to the cession of parental rights and obligations to government educrats is based on principle.

Your hypothetical misses the point I think. The State simply is not obligated to determine whether or not a child declared to be homeschooled is in fact being schooled to its own arbitrary 'standards.' The State cannot violate the sacred bounds of the home for that reason.

Would it be a tragedy if parents held their children at home under the pretense that they were being homeschooled when in fact they were not being provided a reasonable level of education? Yes. I believe it would be tragic. I know of a religious sect in my area that does not homeschool for academic excellence, but rather to keep their offspring within their insulated, clannish community.

However, I see horrid occurrences in the government school system in my area as well. Absolutely uneducated students; verbally abusive, ignorant, brutish and apathetic teachers; incidents of student on student violence, sexual assault, etc. Who is enforcing the State's 'standards'? Not the State. Why should a bankrupt and corrupt governmental institution be allowed to violate the privacy and primacy of the American citizen's home?

Those 'standards' are bandied about as a threat, not out of the State's altruistic concern for homeschooled children, but because homeschoolers and homeschooling parents pose such an awesome threat to the Leviathan State.

The government school system; the State, is not responsible for holding folks who are declared homeschoolers to arbitrary government standards - standards that have obviously failed.

Anecdotal "what-if's" notwithstanding, as a matter of principle the State must leave homeschoolers undisturbed - and rather concentrate its 'beneficent powers' toward educating the children who have been willingly given over to its dominion.