Teachers' poor pay just myth

Scottsdale Republic ^ | Craig J. Cantoni

[hsmomx3]

Contrary to union propaganda, teachers are not underpaid. I say this as someone with 28 years of experience in conducting salary surveys and designing pay plans.

According to data from the Bureau of Labor Statistics, local elementary school teachers earn about the same average pay on an hourly basis as local reporters ($23.74). They also earn more than microbiologists ($20.60), zoologists ($17.36) and accountants ($22.49). Secondary school teachers even earn more per hour than civil engineers.

[Clara Lou]

Katiebelle,
The secret is to avoid these threads on education. If you never read the posts, then you can't have the urge to respond or be made angry by the rudeness and thoughtless remarks, which are legion. [As you can see, I have not been able to completely follow my own advice. I have been able to resist responding to the more odious Freepers who haven't the sense not to lump people all together.]

[laredo44]

I would venture that 75-80% of those kids come from the hood with no clue as to how to behave in a civil fashion.

And yet the education establishment acts as if they can be placed in a classroom setting just like the kids that are ready to learn. That, more than anything else is the reason schools are failing.

[eleni121]

As a matter of fact, homeschoolers do better on any measure of academic performance. Your snide remark about geography and spelling reflects the prevailing attitude among educrats that learning fundamental facts is not acceptable or valuable. The unionists and socialist teacher trainers (beginning with the Deweyites) have brainwashed a generation (or more) of teachers who think that children cannot bear the thought of failure and should not be punished for unwillingness to study and do the work. It's about learning to "work together" to "find information together" to "come up with question together" and horseshit like that.

[Clara Lou]

Don't forget the hour prep period.
What is a "prep period"? We don't have these in Texas. We do have conference periods during which we meet with parents, counselors, other teachers and make phone calls to parents on various matters-- often their child's comportment. If I can, I also run tests, quizzes, worksheets, etc. I try to plan, also, if there is time. Is it your opinion that this is not "work"? Or is it your opinion that I should be doing all of the above mentioned things on my own time?

[laredo44]

Most elementary school teachers around here work from about 7:30 to 4:00 and DO NOT get a lunch hour. You do the math....

You've not given sufficient information to solve the problem. Please describe your "typical" day from 7:30 to 4:00 in hourly or half-hourly increments. Include any time spent outside the 7:30-4:00 day, the amount of time and nature of work. Also, include the school district if possible. I'd like to verify that 7:30 to 4:00.

[Diva Betsy Ross]

There are also the cases like my neighbors, who work in a very conservative upper middle class neighborhood. They live in the same town, but they send their daughter to private school. The wife is a school counsleor, who hates kids. The husband is a vice principal for a charter school. They have three kids. One has speech problems , one has serious health problem, one was just born. They both have huge , brand new SUV s and they have a brand new house on the golf course. They all wear designer clothes and never hand down anything. They have a fulltime babysitter who works , even when they are home and family to run all of their errands.

They leave at 7:45 and get home between 2:30 and 4:00 EVERYDAY. Wife has 6 months off due to maternity leave, husband has to put in about 10 hours a week durring summer. Wife is always shopping at Talbots and getting hair done, husband goes golfing every weekend.

WE are in PA they get paid highly. Wife jokes that she spends her day instructing kids how to organize their books and which should go on top of which. She loves to buy all of the goodies in educational magazines and organize them, because she loves to organize. They are both under 30. I am stay at home Mom with husband who travels alot. I hear stories about how unfair it is that this couple has no time for vacation. and that they have to take classes once a year to keep up. I hear about how unfair it is that they make the same about as my husband with an MBA from USC and Cornell undergrad. They graduated with teaching degrees BA from the local small college. They have better health benefits and get their auto insurance paid for. I see them outside all weekend sun bathing in the summer. I was friendly with these people for two years until they found out I homeschool. I was told that I am "taking money out of the public schools( See previous note about daughter in private school, and that I am wrong for homeschooling without a teaching degree."

The way I see it no one else can afford so rich a life style as this teaching couple.

YOu make valid points, but there is a reason there is much scorn for teachers. They are not all like you and you even admit it. I was a social worker , so I understand being upset with the sterotype. But you have to admit that where there is a sterotype, there is a bit of truth.

I do hope your working conditions improve, I don't think anyone should have to work like that.

[jackbill]

She hates when how she goes on about how teachers are underpaid/not appreciated/God's gift to humanity how I bring up these types of issues. LOL!

You might mention to her that my granddaughter, who took many, many advanced placement courses in high school, decided to be a teacher. After about six weeks she quit, saying that the curricula was an insult to her intelligence.

[Amelia]

But you get an hour for lunch.

In what school is that? I get 25 minutes for lunch, if I'm lucky.

[laredo44]

What is a "prep period"?

Prep period is the hour a day teachers generally spend shooting the breeze in the teacher lounge.

[reg45]

Also, what are the "gubmont benefits" that you speak of?

One big government benefit is that teachers like other government employees are exempt from paying Social Security. They may have to pay into various state run pension plans, but those usually have a better R. O. I. than Social inSecurity. Non-governmental employees are "required" to pay for the Ponzi Scheme.

[Amelia]

Right, Teachers get to include driving time to and from work, say they never get to eat and compalin about having to work with children and do 1/2 hours extra work at home because they were socializing during their "lunch hour bloked off time". WHAAAA I want more money because you aren't giving me the money for nothing. WHAAA......

In whose world?

Look, I've worked in the private sector, and I've taught school. The private sector was less stressful, easier, and paid a lot better. PLUS, I got an hour for lunch, could go out to eat, and didn't have to either bring my lunch or eat in the (YIKES!) school cafeteria.

I happen to like teaching, and it gives me the same hours as my children, so I'm still doing it.

But believe me, the job looks a whole lot easier to someone who's never done it before.

[Amelia]

One big government benefit is that teachers like other government employees are exempt from paying Social Security.

That's true in some school districts, but not many. In my school district, and all the ones around me, teachers must pay Social Security.

[VeniVidiVici]

I don't know where the thread took a turn to teacher bashing since the original post was about the fact that teachers were fairly compensated.

That being said, I do happen to agree with that statement. I work in IT and I work 60-70 hours a week. I pay my own retirement, get two weeks vacation and 9 paid holidays.

The teachers here (high school) teach for four periods (get two planning periods), 18 sick days a year, attend teacher training during the school day and meetings "after hours" are verboten (unless they get paid).

So they work 190 days a year - minus sick time, yada, yada.

I'm not saying teachers are bad, worth it or are great. Just saying they make a decent hourly wage.

[Amelia]

Prep period is the hour a day teachers generally spend shooting the breeze in the teacher lounge.

At the school where you "work" perhaps. Our school doesn't even have a teacher lounge. We spend our planning periods planning lessons & setting up labs, grading papers, calling parents, having parent conferences and other meetings, going to training classes on various things the school board thinks we need to learn about....

[gitmo]

Paragraphs are your friends.

[ReagansShinyHair]

"One big government benefit is that teachers like other government employees are exempt from paying Social Security. They may have to pay into various state run pension plans, but those usually have a better R. O. I. than Social inSecurity. Non-governmental employees are "required" to pay for the Ponzi Scheme."

Ahh, but what about people who paid into Social Security and then became teachers? They do not get to collect their social security, it is lost for all time. If their spouse worked for 35 years and paid to SS all that time and then dies, the teacher does not get SS.

Also, what about the $1000 per year the union steals out of a teacher's paycheck? In CA you can refuse to join, but they take your money anyway. You have to pay it all up front, and they donate it to charity of their choice.

What about the $2000-$3000 I've spent on teacher supplies each year? I'm sure you've spent $200/month on supplies to bring to your job this year, right?

[Clara Lou]

Prep period is the hour a day teachers generally spend shooting the breeze in the teacher lounge.
Really??? Do you work in a school? Can you document this observation? It's amazing. At my campus, I'll bet that there are three teachers who would rather visit than work during their conference period. The more I accomplish during my conference period, the less I have to do at home. From their behavior, most of the teachers on my campus agree with me on that.

[Amelia]

That being said, I do happen to agree with that statement. I work in IT and I work 60-70 hours a week. I pay my own retirement, get two weeks vacation and 9 paid holidays.

Mind you, I'm not complaining, because if I weren't willing to accept the conditions of teaching, I'd go back to the private sector.

However, I'd bet that either your official working hours are 40 hours per week, and/or you're getting overtime for the additional hours you put in. Keep in mind that, although teachers also have "set" hours, many teachers put in much longer hours either at school or at home, tutoring students, calling parents, planning lessons, grading papers, and attending sporting events -- and at least around here, overtime is not paid for those things.

Also, conditions do vary from district to district and state to state. In my state, we're required to take 2 college courses or the equivalent every 5 years to keep our certification - in most districts this must be done on your own time and paid for out of your own pocket. When I was in the private sector, if I needed additional training for my job skills, my employer paid for it, and it was done on "company time" (which of course, didn't mean that I didn't have to spend some of my own time catching up on work that wasn't done while I was training...)

And, while the official hourly wage probably is competitive, teachers do work fewer official hours than other professions do, unless they teach summer school or something similar, and mortgages, utilities, car payments, etc. are based on annual salary, not hourly wage.

[Diva Betsy Ross]

Hey Katiebelle- everything of importance in my life I taught myself. My teachers were too busy paying attenion to the popular kids, and trying to figure out how to get me to be as dumb as the other kids. They never had to explain how a child with IQ of 110( now 135) was being sent for special ed classes, could it be they could not keep up? They did not care about what that would do to my life, just what it would do for theirs. I then went on to place out of college in the 98%. I was reading when I started school, and love reading.. now spelling and typing are not my strong suits.( I was educated with whole lanuage in the public schools, and have spent many years trying to undo the damage.)

Anyway, I don't think all teachers are bad, and neither does anyone here. We do hate the NEA ,and we are sick of hearing about the strife of the teachers. Who else complains so much about jobs and pay?

You don't believe me about the neighbors I have? You are calling me a liar? I will give you my address and you can see for yourself. Are they wealthy? I happen to know they will not ever put money away for kid's college. They think it is the kid's job to that if they want to go, besides they can get loans and never pay them back. Just more entitlement. You can say I am lying all you want. However, other people have similar stories... we can't all be lying.