145 of my 150 men fled, says Guard officer

The Daily Telegraph ^ | April 17, 2003 | David Blair

[MadIvan]

I suppose we should have had some idea of this by the creation of the "Special Republican Guard" and the "Fedayeen Saddam" - the additional layers in the military structure indicated fewer and fewer troops that were actually loyal and motivated to fight.

Regards, Ivan

[MadIvan]

Bump!

[Joe 6-pack]

...Further evidence that the French were directly advising the Iraqi military...

[the Deejay]

I'd heard early on that all those guards were never trained for actual combat. They'd only been trained to protect Saddam and the Baath Party in case of a revolt by the Iraqi people.

That explains why none of the soldiers had proper attire, weapons or training for combat against the coalition forces. Many of our troops said they "almost felt sorry for them."

[DWPittelli]

One thing that stands out to me is how small the units were. If 6 armored "divisions" had 50,000 men, that's only about 8,000 per division, whereas a U.S. division would more typically have twice as many men (unit sizes do vary). Also, a full Colonel would generally command a battalion, and that would more typically be 1,500 men than the 150 mentioned here. (Going up in unit size, a Brigadier or 1-star General, naturally, commands a Brigade, which consists of 2-4 battalions and of which there are generally 2-4 per division.)

So the Iraqi units weren't really what they were represented as, not just in terms of training and maintenance, but even in the most basic sense. So if a Colonel commanded 150 men, and they had the usual ranks below him, it sounds like a very top-heavy structure, perhaps necessitated by their rigid, centralized command structure, or by the fear of desertion, mutiny and coups d'etat.

[Zon]

Saddam Hussein coerced many Iraqis to be in the military. How stupid is that!?

"I generally don't favor coercing a person whom my life may depend on." -- Ethan Hunt, Mission Impossible II

 

[AgThorn]

Mad you say!!!

[Bush2000]

Demoralised soldiers from Iraq's Republican Guard thought Saddam Hussein was "mad"

Hussein isn't (or wasn't) "mad" in the conventional sense. He knew exactly what he was doing: Sending his own people out to die for his own selfish and arrogant pleasure.

[AgThorn]

Mad?


MAD?


MAD you say?????

[Fitzcarraldo]

A question or two about WMDs is called for. I thought
Saddam ordered the troops to use them as we crossed the "red line".

[Illbay]

Col Said described the cynicism of sycophantic Republican Guard generals who assured Saddam of victory during televised meetings. "They told him we would fight any power in the world. When we heard this, we couldn't believe it. But then the generals told us, 'No, no - don't worry. Just keep quiet. Stay in your positions. It won't happen'."

It's like fighting the Lost Boys from Peter Pan!

[Illbay]

Hm. Your numbers and mine don't match.

A MAJ or LTC normally commands a Battalion, and a Division has between 10,000 and 16,000, commanded by a Major General.

A full COL normally commands a Brigade.

Divisions are made up of two or three Brigades, and a Brigade has typically three Battalions.

Source: Department of the Army Pamphlet 10-1

[Illbay]

We aren't going to know a lot of this stuff for some time, because there are lots of bad guys out there--likely most of them in Syria--and intelligence ops and SpecOps are ongoing even if the grunts are scaling back.

[dighton]

Now this is the point. You fancy me mad. Madmen know nothing. But you should have seen me. You should have seen how wisely I proceeded -- with what caution -- with what foresight -- with what dissimulation I went to work!

[Guillermo]

Quagmire Operational Pause Stalingrad alert.

[Conservababe]

In the first Gulf War, I argued with my family, friends and co-workers that Saddam did not have the third most powerful military in the world.

After the war, I received many apologies, as this was proven untrue.

Now, twelve years later, most of the same people were telling me that it will a war like no other, as we are going in to Baghdad this time, to meet the Elite Republican Guard.

I told them the same as in the first Gulf War, that there is no magical Republican Guard.

So far, I have received no apologies.

LOL

[Conservababe]

Hussein isn't (or wasn't) "mad" in the conventional sense. He knew exactly what he was doing: Sending his own people out to die for his own selfish and arrogant pleasure.

You are correct, methinks. People who cannot endure the atrocities of others, in their hearts of goodness, always succumb to the idea that those who are so cruel are mad or insane.

May we always remember that perfectly rational persons can be cruel and crush your child like an ant under their heel, not because they are insane, but because they are cruel.

[freedumb2003]

Ivan baby,
You rock! It seems more than half the posts that make me smile (or crack up)! How do you FIND these jems?

You have my undying gratitute!

[VeniVidiVici]

So if a Colonel commanded 150 men, and they had the usual ranks below him, it sounds like a very top-heavy structure, perhaps necessitated by their rigid, centralized command structure, or by the fear of desertion, mutiny and coups d'etat.

I do believe you hit the nail on the head.

[Happy2BMe]

The others had fled, along with his commanding officer, Gen Mahmoud al-Ani.

The French inspired the fighting spirit in Saddam's Republic Guard in the traditional manner . .