Suit: Sun fired US workers to hire lower-paid Indians

Boston Globe ^ | March 18, 2003 | Hiawatha Bray

[sarcasm]

The lawsuit, for which class-action status is being sought, is certain to intensify an already fierce debate between technology companies and American engineers over the future of the H-1B visa program. Such visas let companies temporarily bring foreign workers into the United States.

[grania]

As a Systems Administrator I know full well that there are too many overpaid "professionals" around me....

Are you going to feel that way until you're the "overpaid professional" who is replaced?

[Caipirabob]

And at that point we have to sit back and say it's their right to do so. We need to move to get our government to make it "more attractive" to create the jobs at home.

[Jumper]

Naw, I'm already underpaid working for the Government and under no illusions at this point (I thought I was trading less salary for job security but there won't be many of us left working for Uncle Sam unless we become contractors) - we're all going to outsourced in the next five years anyway. I've got that gypsie spirit and will move to work to eat to live!

I know you guys are gonna flame that last post "like the Red Barron"....:)

[grania]

I thought I was trading less salary for job security but there won't be many of us left working for Uncle Sam unless we become contractors

Uncle is hiring contractors instead of full-timers? I hope they're US citizens.

[junta]

You use your keyboard, I should like a crack at the boy with my fists and feet.

[AppyPappy]

I don't need that.

True. You end up with lots of "analysts" and "project leaders" and no programmers. A whole department dedicated to protecting their own asses instead of churning out work. And they live in a constant state of "Analysis Paralysis" and wonder why they get outsourced.

When I worked at AT&T, we used to dread hiring programmers because the first thing out of their mouths after hiring was "I'm not very technical". Great. Another baby to rock.

[clamper1797]

Could you be anymore insulting? I'm 50 and I'd kick your ass on the keyboard of your choosing. Your perceptions are bigotry. You're as bad as Sun or anyone else who think engineers have a "shelf life".

Moron.

I'LL SECOND THAT !!!!

[clamper1797]

Yessiree us old-timers have to stick together on this. Someday FORTRAN and COBOL will be back and then who'll be laughing. Dagnabbit.

This "old timer" is compiling a C++ program as I type this

[Jumper]

Yea, gotta have a clearance:)

[Maximum Leader]

Probably not. In fact, Uncle Sam has been hiring contractors for years so the politicians can say (like Clinton did) that the federal workforce is the smallest since the Kennedy Administration. What it means is that there are fewer civil servants and way more contractors.

I dated a girl who was an Accenture consultant and she managed a team of 20 who worked for the Dept. of Education. That's 21 people being paid by the taxpayers and yet none of them count as part of the federal workforce.

[sharktrager]

There are lots of industries heading to India. One of the most surprising for me was the call center/telemarketing industry. The labor costs between 20-30% of what it is in the US. You'd be amazed how many of your calls to customer service departments aren't answered in the US.

[eno_]

This "old timer" is compiling a C++ program as I type this Good for you! Add Python, PHP, and Apache, and you'll be prosperous. Learn how to do Java MIDP too, and you'll be stylin'. Leave the dull IT crap to the outsourcers. The rule of thumb is everything you know today will be utterly worthless in two years. You don't have to over 50 to stagnate. I know lots of ex-dot-bomb people who specialized in some Web tool or other that are totally unemployable. It's not the age, it's the belief that something will go on forever that'll bite you.

[clamper1797]

Sorry ... I'm a hardware engineer ... chip (ASIC) designer. I do software as a necessary evil.

[Pro-Bush]

Re: There are lots of industries heading to India. One of the most surprising for me was the call center/telemarketing industry. The labor costs between 20-30% of what it is in the US. You'd be amazed how many of your calls to customer service departments aren't answered in the US.

Convergy's (Cincinnati Bell spin-off) has open a call center in India that holds 1,900 seats. They plan to lay off 900 more in the USA this year:

http://www.crmdaily.com/perl/story/15176.html

http://www.convergys.com/pdf/brochures/india_brochure.pdf

[george wythe]

At the same time, the suit alleges that Sun was applying for permission to bring in about 2,400 foreign workers, mostly from India, to fill technical jobs. Many of these jobs were advertised in the United States, as federal law requires. But the suit alleges that Sun refused to consider any of the laid-off US workers for the positions.

I'm strongly in favor of more immigration, as long as it is fair and regulated immigration.

Nevertheless, if these allegations are correct, Sun has lost its right to use the H-1 visa program.

American workers always have priority, meaning American citizens and legal residents must be considered first before foreigners are imported.

[gcruse]

working for the Government and under no illusions at this point (I thought I was trading less salary for job security

Bwahahahahahahhhhha!!!!!  Maybe seventy-five years ago.  Thanks to government employee unions, the salary is too high and the security elminates productivity.  My ex-father-in-law spent a career at BATF and personified the problem.

[Regulator]

It will only end when the American middle class is completely decimated

That's the idea.

[Zathras]

I didn't used to believe that H1b in general and Indians in specific were stealing American jobs.
I sure do now.

The endless parade of Indian engineers I'm required to train in so they can use my head a stepping stone truly astonishes me.

I once asked one of them about a idea I had to speed productivity and the reply I got was "Oh you don't need to know that".