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Pope's message to Bush - war against Iraq will be 'unjust and illegal'
Houston Chronicle ^ | March 6, 2003 | BENNETT ROTH

Posted on 03/06/2003 12:40:07 AM PST by Cincinatus' Wife

WASHINGTON -- A Vatican envoy Wednesday carried the pope's message to the White House that a U.S.-led war against Iraq without United Nations' approval would be "unjust and illegal."

The stern words from Cardinal Pio Laghi, who met for 40 minutes with Bush, underscored the rift between the president, who considers himself a deeply religious man, and a number of Christian leaders over Iraq.

Pope John Paul II has regularly preached against the war and asked Catholics worldwide to pray for peace and fast on Ash Wednesday.

Several mainstream Protestant denominations also have come out against a pre-emptive strike by the United States against Baghdad.

But the dispute between the White House and the pope over Iraq poses an especially difficult political quandary for Bush, who has aggressively sought to woo traditionally Democratic Catholic voters to the Republican fold.

The meeting Wednesday did not appear to bridge the gap.

While Bush has signaled that he is prepared to confront Saddam Hussein even without the Security Council's approval, Laghi said that the Vatican believes a just war can be waged only with the United Nations' endorsement.

Laghi said before going to war the United Nations should take into account "the grave consequences of such an armed conflict: the suffering of the people of Iraq and those involved in the military operation, a further instability in the region and a new gulf between Islam and Christianity."

He said that any war without U.N. approval "is illegal, it is unjust, it's all you can say."

White House spokesman Ari Fleischer said that Bush defended his policy to the Cardinal, telling him, "if it comes to the use of force he believes it will make the world better."

Officials said that Bush disagreed with the Vatican's contention that a war would widen the gulf between the West and the Muslim world. The president argued that U.S. efforts to expand educational opportunities for children in Afghanistan had brought the cultures closer.

Laghi, a former Vatican ambassador to the United States who was close to Bush's father, delivered a letter from the pope to the president, which concluded "I ask the Lord to inspire you to search for ways of stable peace -- the noblest of human endeavors."

The White House was clearly nervous about the publicity of the rift between Bush and the Vatican, particularly coming during a period of tense negotiations at the United Nations.

Laghi, addressing reporters at the National Press Club, said that administration officials would not allow him to hold a press conference in the White House. It is customary for visitors to field media questions in the driveway in front of the West Wing after they meet with the president.

The growing tension with the Vatican could undercut Bush's efforts to court Catholic voters.

Since assuming office Bush has twice visited the pope in Italy and has spoken at the commencement at Notre Dame University. The president also has appealed to more observant Catholics by opposing abortion and cloning.

But experts said Bush risks losing support from those voters by pressing ahead with war.

"Bush goes to Catholics and talks about how he is opposed to abortion. It is the same values that lead Catholics to oppose abortion that lead them to oppose war," said John Green, a political science professor at the University of Akron.

Dan Bartlett, the president's chief communications adviser, rejected the contention that the pope's appeal may erode support among American Catholics for possible war.

"There are many Catholics who support," Bush's Iraq policy, Bartlett said. "I am one of them."

Recent polls suggest that so far the Vatican's influence has been limited in the United States.

A recent survey by the Pew Center for the Public and the Press found that about two thirds of American Catholics backed military action in Iraq -- similar to the overall backing for war.

The poll found the highest backing for war comes from evangelical Christians, who have long provided the backbone of Bush's political support.

And not surprisingly it is evangelical leaders who have broken with many Protestant churches on the issue of Iraq.

A practicing Methodist who was raised an Episcopalian, Bush speaks the language of evangelical Christians, according to a number of religious scholars who have studied his speeches.

The president laces his speeches with references to faith and citations from the Bible, often linking his religious faith to domestic and international policy.

"I welcome faith to solve the nation's deepest problems," he recently told a convention of religious broadcasters.

Bush's use of religious rhetoric, however, has troubled a number of secular and religious critics who say the president is unfairly endowing himself with moral authority to justify war.


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Bush discounts pope's anti-war plea*** Cardinal Pio Laghi, a former papal nuncio to the United States, gave Mr. Bush a letter from Pope John Paul II that outlined the pontiff's moral objections to an attack on Iraq. But the president countered that much good could come from such a war. "A disarmed Iraq is something that makes the world both safer and better," a senior administration official said after the meeting. "Better for the Iraqi people, better for the region, better for the world." The official added: "As president, he has the responsibility to protect the American people and to protect America, which is an important factor in his thinking."***
1 posted on 03/06/2003 12:40:07 AM PST by Cincinatus' Wife
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To: Cincinatus' Wife
With all due respect your Excellency, "illegal"?
2 posted on 03/06/2003 12:54:25 AM PST by bayareablues
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To: Cincinatus' Wife
Pope's message to Moses - war against Midianites will be 'unjust and illegal'
3 posted on 03/06/2003 12:55:33 AM PST by Sir Gawain
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Comment #4 Removed by Moderator

To: Cincinatus' Wife
G'morning, btw :^)
5 posted on 03/06/2003 12:59:21 AM PST by JohnHuang2
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To: Cincinatus' Wife

The Beltway news media is all abuzz over NEWSWEEK's bombshell cover story -- a devastating account of a mushrooming White House scandal which, till now, only lurked below the surface.

Face it: Every White House, sooner or later, gets hit with 'The Big One' -- a major scandal -- and I'm afraid, for Bush, this may be it.

As far as White House scandals, you probably think you've heard and seen 'em all, I bet. Presidential perjury, obstruction of justice, selling the White House, stealing the White House, trashing the White House, pardons-for-sale, vandalism, larceny, embezzlement, seduction of interns -- we got all these and more under the most ethical administration in history alone.

Well, ya ain't heard nothing yet, folks.

Get a load of this: "George W. Bush rises ahead of the dawn most days," writes NEWSWEEK reporter Howard Fineman, and "he goes off to a quiet place to read alone."

Reading alone -- that's the Big Scandal?

Wrong. What's he reading, ummmm?

Detective Fineman lays out the damaging details rocking the White House tonight: "His text isn't news summaries or the overnight intelligence dispatches...It's not recreational reading...IT'S A BOOK OF EVANGELICAL MINI-SERMONS," Oswald Chambers', '"My Utmost for His Highest"!

Scary stuff, yes, but that's not all.

"This presidency" Fineman continues in his tale of White House horrors, "is the most resolutely 'faith-based' in modern times, an enterprise founded, supported and guided by trust in the temporal and spiritual power of God."

Brace yourself, here's the bombshell revelation: "The Bush administration is dedicated to the idea that there is an answer to societal problems here and to terrorism abroad: give everyone, everywhere, the freedom to find God, too."

Bush is a born-again Christian! And he prays, too! And he reads the Bible!

While the White House may have weathered initial blows from these startling revelations, the bottom line is the bottom line: Bush is way, way TOO CHRISTIAN, say the newsies!

But wait: "An envoy sent by Pope John Paul on Wednesday," Reuters reports, "urged President George W. Bush to avoid war and work with the United Nations to seek a peaceful resolution to the Iraqi crisis."

Cardinal Pio Laghi, during his private White House meeting with the President, conveyed a letter from the Pope which read, in part, "I ask the Lord to inspire you to search for a way to a stable peace, the noblest of human endeavors."

Reuters: "Asked whether he had persuaded Bush to rule out war as an outcome to the Iraqi situation, Laghi said: 'You have to ask him.'"

The answer, in other words, was NO! Bush told the Pope no!

So now the media says BUSH ISN'T CHRISTIAN ENOUGH!

So the week began with the media griping and fussing and carping that Bush was too Christian for the job, that his fervent faith only alienates Muslims and the Arab world.

But here we are, barely four days later, and Bush gets slammed for not being fervent enough in keeping with Christian principles and faith.

Don't ya love such displays of unflinching consistency from our rabidly fair-minded, detached and objective news media?

But mull this one over: With the very open Bush-Pope split on Iraq, claims in the Arab world that Bush is a crusader -- a notion NEWSWEEK sought to stoke with it's Bush and God cover story -- will ring more hollow than ever.

Anyway, that's...
My two cents...
"JohnHuang2"


6 posted on 03/06/2003 1:00:45 AM PST by JohnHuang2
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To: Cincinatus' Wife
..Laghi said before going to war the United Nations should take into account "the grave consequences of such an armed conflict: the suffering of the people of Iraq and those involved in the military operation, a further instability in the region and a new gulf between Islam and Christianity."...

Those three factors can be quickly discounted.

The people of Iraq are already suffering, the region is perenially unstable, and there is a yawning gulf between Islam and Christianity- principally caused by ideological upheavals amongst Muslims themselves. With the greatest of respect to his Holiness, there's nothing in this message worthy of serious reflection.

7 posted on 03/06/2003 1:01:54 AM PST by Byron_the_Aussie
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To: bayareablues
With all due respect your Excellency, "illegal"?

Same question over here. Which law are we violating? Which treaty? The article gives no hint about this and I'll bet the Vatican can't make a legal case. Why is the Vatican so intent on embarassing itself these days? Doesn't it have enough on its plate without embroiling itself in electoral politics over here?

8 posted on 03/06/2003 1:16:33 AM PST by Bonaparte
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To: Cincinatus' Wife
But of course, his condonance of pedofilia is just and legal. What a laugh!
9 posted on 03/06/2003 1:19:34 AM PST by Dec31,1999 (Renegade)
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To: Byron_the_Aussie
The people of Iraq are already suffering, ....

That doesn't fit into the script. Church institutions have taken up the LIBERAL banner.

Ecology Getting Religion*** ''Because I confess Christ to be my savior and Lord, because he died to reconcile all things, I can't be hurting what he died to reconcile me to,'' said the Rev. Jim Ball, executive director of the Evangelical Environmental Network in Washington, D.C.

The belief extends across Catholic, evangelical, Protestant, and Jewish groups.

''The concept of stewardship is at the heart of the religious rhetoric of human responsibility,'' said Rabbi Ismar Schorsch, chancellor of the Jewish Theological Seminary in New York City. ''A reverence for nature is part of the religious sensibility.''

Also vital is the idea of environmental protection as the kind of social justice that religious institutions have supported for decades.

While these arguments have been around in one form or another for a long time, religious and environmental movements primarily had existed on opposing sides of the political spectrum, with conservatism fueled by people of faith while environmentalism grew out of and helped nourish progressive politics. Only in the past dozen years have religions formally started to address environmental concerns.

In 1989, Pope John Paul II issued a message on ''The Ecological Crisis: A Common Responsibility.'' In 1990, Carl Sagan organized 32 eminent scientists to sign an open letter to the world religious community, calling for their help on issues like global warming.

The National Religious Partnership for the Environment was founded in 1992. Its constituent groups say they now serve 100 million Americans.

The new-style environmentalists gained attention in the early months of Republican control of Congress in 1995, when they successfully fought to preserve the Endangered Species Act after it came under attack from GOP lawmakers. More recently, they have focused on the threat of global warming, and in the meantime getting noticed by the White House.

When the Environmental Protection Agency administrator, Christie Whitman, made the case to President Bush in March that the administration should take action on global warming, she cited the growing movement.

''For the first time the world's religious communities have started to engage in this issue,'' Whitman wrote in a memorandum to the president. ''Their solutions vary widely, but the fervor of the focus was clear.''***

National Council of Churches***Stop the War Fast - Celebrate the season of Lent by calling for peace with Iraq and taking personal and community steps to reduce America's dependence on petroleum. In so doing, we seek justice for all people and all of creation.***

United States Conference of Catholic Bishops*** Welcome to the USCCB Environmental Justice Program. We have a variety of resources for you to use in your parish, diocese, school, etc., to foster care and respect for God's creation. Please check out the list below, and feel free to make copies of this information for your group.***

Statement of Cardinal Pio Laghi, Papal Envoy to President George Bush following their meeting at the White House today. [Full Text] I was privileged to have been sent by the Holy Father as his Special Envoy to President George Bush. I assured him of the Holy Father's great esteem and affection for the American people and the United States of America.

The purpose of my visit was to deliver a personal message of the Holy Father to the President regarding the Iraqi crisis, to expound upon the Holy See's position and to report on the various initiatives undertaken by the Holy See to contribute to disarmament and peace in the Middle East.

Out of respect for the President and because of the importance of this moment, I am not in a position to discuss the substance of our conversation, nor am I able to release the text of the personal letter of the Holy Father to the President.

The Holy See is urging those in positions of civil authority to take fully into account all aspects of this crisis. In that regard, the Holy See's position has been two-fold. First, the Iraqi government is obliged to fulfill completely and fully its international obligations regarding human rights and disarmament under the UN resolutions with respect for international norms. Second, these obligations and their fulfillment must continue to be pursued within the framework of the United Nations.

The Holy See maintains that there are still peaceful avenues within the context of the vast patrimony of international law and institutions which exist for that purpose. A decision regarding the use of military force can only be taken within the framework of the United Nations, but always taking into account the grave consequences of such an armed conflict: the suffering of the people of Iraq and those involved in the military operation, a further instability in the region and a new gulf between Islam and Christianity.

I want to emphasize that there is great unity on this grave matter on the part of the Holy See, the Bishops in the United States, and the Church throughout the world.

I told the President that today, on Ash Wednesday, Catholics around the world are following the Pope's request to pray and fast for peace this day. The Holy Father himself continues to pray and hope that all leaders who face difficult decisions will be inspired in their search for peace. [End]

Thom White Wolf Fassett As emeritus General Secretary of the international rights organization of The United Methodist Church, The General Board of Church and Society, Thom White Wolf Fassett brings a rich and varied background of experience now as Superintendent of Finger Lakes South District of The United Methodist Church.

Dr. Fassett has written and published extensively co-authoring Human Rights and Responsibilities in a Divided World (Prague, Institute of Philosophy of the Academy of Sciences of the Czech Republic, 1996) and Defending Mother Earth, Native American Perspectives on Environmental Justice (New York, Orbis Books, 1996). His numerous articles have appeared in periodicals and scholarly publications and from 1988 until 2000, he was the publisher of Christian Social Action a monthly United Methodist magazine. He has also served as adjunct faculty member of Colgate Rochester Divinity School, Bexley Hall Seminary and Crozer Theological School and has received numerous honors and appears in various international biographical publications. His most recent appointments include serving as a founding member of the Institute for the Study of Harassment of African Americans in Washington, D.C.; Advisory Council, Americans for Humanitarian Trade with Cuba, and advisor to the President's Commission on Race. ***

Evangelical Environmental Network & Creation Care Magazine***EEN is a unique evangelical ministry whose purpose is to "declare the Lordship of Christ over all creation (Col. 1:15-20). EEN was formed because we recognize many "environmental" problems are fundamentally spiritual problems. EEN's flagship publication, Creation Care magazine, provides you with biblically informed and timely articles on topics ranging from how to protect your loved ones against environmental threats to how you can more fully praise the Creator for the wonder of His creation. You can sign up today for a free issue of Creation Care magazine.***

Hazon and the New York Jewish Environmental Bike RideWe're delighted to announce our first Israel Ride - "The Arava Institute Hazon Bike Ride In Israel: Cycling In Solidarity for Peace, Partnership & Environmental Protection", which takes place April 27th to May 2nd 2003.***

The National Religious Partnership for the Environment*** The National Religious Partnership for the Environment is a formal alliance of major faith groups and denominations across the spectrum of Jewish and Christian communities and organizations in the United States. Its four founding partners include: The U.S. Catholic Conference, the National Council of Churches of Christ, the Coalition on the Environment and Jewish Life, and the Evangelical Environmental Network.

The Partnership is integrating care for God's creation throughout religious life: theology, worship, social teaching, education, congregational life, and public policy initiative. And we seek to provide inspiration, moral vision, and commitment to social justice for all efforts to protect the natural world and human well-being within it.***

Eco-heretic beset by hate campaign*** The book was published by Cambridge University Press. Last autumn it sent Lomborg on a promotional tour of Britain and America, little realising the reaction that was building up. It began when Lomborg was heckled and booed at a book-signing at Borders bookshop in Oxford. As he was speaking, one of the crowd rushed forward and pushed a cream-laden baked Alaska pie into his face.

Last week the protester, Mark Lynas, an environmentalist campaigning to save the Arctic from the effects of climate change, admitted the attack and said: "Hitting him with a baked Alaska seemed appropriate. Global warming is destroying one of the Earth's last wildernesses and Lomborg is trying to pretend it doesn't matter." Even respectable scientific venues are not safe for Lomborg. When he recently gave a lecture at London's Royal Institution he was protected by four bodyguards, and threats were made against him when he addressed the London School of Economics.

The biggest shock came when Nature, the usually restrained scientific journal, printed a review comparing Lomborg to maverick academics who deny the Holocaust. The reviewers said Lomborg's text "employs the strategy of those who argue that gay men are not dying of Aids, that Jews weren't singled out by the Nazis and so on".***

"Democratic Socialists of America share a vision of a humane international social order based on equitable distribution of resources, meaningful work, gender and racial equality, a healthy environment, sustainable growth, and non-oppressive relationships." The Progressive Challenge 6. GUARANTEE SUSTAINABLE COMMUNITIES & ENVIRONMENTAL JUSTICE - Distribution of more federal funds, especially to poor communities; revisions in trade agreements to allow communities to enact strong environmental and labor laws; and re-targeting federal insurance, subsidies, and loans for community development; promoting the right to a clean environment and replacing subsidies for polluters with subsidies for ecologically sound products and services. We also support a shift to more sustainable agriculture that supports rural communities and a safe food supply.***

Evangelical Environmental Network & Creation Care Magazine***EEN is a unique evangelical ministry whose purpose is to "declare the Lordship of Christ over all creation (Col. 1:15-20). EEN was formed because we recognize many "environmental" problems are fundamentally spiritual problems. EEN's flagship publication, Creation Care magazine, provides you with biblically informed and timely articles on topics ranging from how to protect your loved ones against environmental threats to how you can more fully praise the Creator for the wonder of His creation. You can sign up today for a free issue of Creation Care magazine.***

Hazon and the New York Jewish Environmental Bike RideWe're delighted to announce our first Israel Ride - "The Arava Institute Hazon Bike Ride In Israel: Cycling In Solidarity for Peace, Partnership & Environmental Protection", which takes place April 27th to May 2nd 2003.***

The National Religious Partnership for the Environment*** The National Religious Partnership for the Environment is a formal alliance of major faith groups and denominations across the spectrum of Jewish and Christian communities and organizations in the United States. Its four founding partners include: The U.S. Catholic Conference, the National Council of Churches of Christ, the Coalition on the Environment and Jewish Life, and the Evangelical Environmental Network.

The Partnership is integrating care for God's creation throughout religious life: theology, worship, social teaching, education, congregational life, and public policy initiative. And we seek to provide inspiration, moral vision, and commitment to social justice for all efforts to protect the natural world and human well-being within it.***

Eco-heretic beset by hate campaign*** The book was published by Cambridge University Press. Last autumn it sent Lomborg on a promotional tour of Britain and America, little realising the reaction that was building up. It began when Lomborg was heckled and booed at a book-signing at Borders bookshop in Oxford. As he was speaking, one of the crowd rushed forward and pushed a cream-laden baked Alaska pie into his face.

Last week the protester, Mark Lynas, an environmentalist campaigning to save the Arctic from the effects of climate change, admitted the attack and said: "Hitting him with a baked Alaska seemed appropriate. Global warming is destroying one of the Earth's last wildernesses and Lomborg is trying to pretend it doesn't matter." Even respectable scientific venues are not safe for Lomborg. When he recently gave a lecture at London's Royal Institution he was protected by four bodyguards, and threats were made against him when he addressed the London School of Economics.

The biggest shock came when Nature, the usually restrained scientific journal, printed a review comparing Lomborg to maverick academics who deny the Holocaust. The reviewers said Lomborg's text "employs the strategy of those who argue that gay men are not dying of Aids, that Jews weren't singled out by the Nazis and so on".***

"Democratic Socialists of America share a vision of a humane international social order based on equitable distribution of resources, meaningful work, gender and racial equality, a healthy environment, sustainable growth, and non-oppressive relationships."

The Progressive Challenge*** 6. GUARANTEE SUSTAINABLE COMMUNITIES & ENVIRONMENTAL JUSTICE - Distribution of more federal funds, especially to poor communities; revisions in trade agreements to allow communities to enact strong environmental and labor laws; and re-targeting federal insurance, subsidies, and loans for community development; promoting the right to a clean environment and replacing subsidies for polluters with subsidies for ecologically sound products and services. We also support a shift to more sustainable agriculture that supports rural communities and a safe food supply.***

10 posted on 03/06/2003 1:21:36 AM PST by Cincinatus' Wife
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To: JohnHuang2
Brace yourself, here's the bombshell revelation: "The Bush administration is dedicated to the idea that there is an answer to societal problems here and to terrorism abroad: give everyone, everywhere, the freedom to find God, too."

Imagine! I think people need to start THINKING. Unfortunately too many have been educated and indoctrinated in public schools. The environment has become a religious cause and triggers an emotional, blind response when sponsored by their religious leaders. Now that they're plugged in with the eco thing, everything else is just spoon fed.

11 posted on 03/06/2003 1:26:19 AM PST by Cincinatus' Wife
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To: Cincinatus' Wife
Well said, friend.
12 posted on 03/06/2003 1:27:19 AM PST by JohnHuang2
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To: Bonaparte; bayareablues; Sir Gawain; All
Which law are we violating? Which treaty?

I don't see it. Let the Pope pray for peace. Let U.S. action bring it about.

***The Holy See is urging those in positions of civil authority to take fully into account all aspects of this crisis. In that regard, the Holy See's position has been two-fold. First, the Iraqi government is obliged to fulfill completely and fully its international obligations regarding human rights and disarmament under the UN resolutions with respect for international norms. Second, these obligations and their fulfillment must continue to be pursued within the framework of the United Nations.

The Holy See maintains that there are still peaceful avenues within the context of the vast patrimony of international law and institutions which exist for that purpose. A decision regarding the use of military force can only be taken within the framework of the United Nations, but always taking into account the grave consequences of such an armed conflict: the suffering of the people of Iraq and those involved in the military operation, a further instability in the region and a new gulf between Islam and Christianity. ***

13 posted on 03/06/2003 1:32:15 AM PST by Cincinatus' Wife
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To: JohnHuang2
And good morning JohnHuang2.
14 posted on 03/06/2003 1:32:53 AM PST by Cincinatus' Wife
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To: bayareablues
http://www.npr.org/programs/morning/transcripts/2003/feb/030226.hagerty.html

Profile: Silent Evangelical Support Of Bush's Proposed War Against Iraq

Morning Edition: February 26, 2003

Evangelicals for War

BOB EDWARDS, host:

This is MORNING EDITION from NPR News. I'm Bob Edwards.

The Vatican is keeping Iraq in the diplomatic spotlight. Pope John Paul meets tomorrow with Spain's prime minister, who supports the US stand against Iraq. Yesterday the Vatican's foreign minister said pre-emptive war against Iraq would be a crime against peace. Similar public pronouncements have been made by American religious organizations. But the Bush administration has strong support from evangelical Christians, who believe war is justified, but don't take public stands. NPR's Barbara Bradley Hagerty reports.

BARBARA BRADLEY HAGERTY reporting:

Recently the National Council of Churches ran a newspaper ad that said, `President Bush, Jesus changed your heart. Now let him change your mind.' There, in two sentences, a pithy mix of politics and theology. But if that captures the view of the faithful, then something doesn't add up because most Americans say they go to church regularly, and most Americans say they would support a US invasion of Iraq. Richard Cizik at the National Association of Evangelicals explains it this way.

Mr. RICHARD CIZIK (National Association of Evangelicals): I think they're probably the silent majority, in as much as they trust this president, George W. Bush, and his assessment of the nature of the threat, but for as many different reasons as there are hours in the day, they don't speak out.

Unidentified Man #1: Good morning.

Unidentified Man #2: Good morning.

HAGERTY: Whether they're a majority or not, some of these silent supporters are early risers, filing into a church before 6:30 on a recent morning for breakfast, prayer and inspiration. The men--white, middle class and socially conservative--are members of an enormous evangelical church in Virginia. The church asks not to be identified because it doesn't want to be involved in politics.

Unidentified Man #3: And let's open our time together with prayer. Heavenly Father, incline our hearts this morning...

HAGERTY: The men bow their heads and pray for their families, for the nation, for the men and women who may soon be deployed to Iraq. And while these men say they don't want a war, they also say they strongly support the president. Parishioner Michael Wible says it jives with his theology. `Of course Jesus preached a gospel of peace,' one of the main arguments that more liberal churches use to oppose a war, but he says...

Mr. MICHAEL WIBLE (Parishioner): The same suffering Messiah is also in the book of Revelation going to be the conquering Messiah. So we have the same God, who died for our sins, is also the God of justice. Just read Revelation, read Ezekiel, read Isaiah.

HAGERTY: `Often in the Bible,' he says, `God sanctions and even encourages war and invasion.' Will Townsend, one of the pastors at this church, is persuaded not just by the content of the Bible, but by the character of this particular president. `George W. Bush has described himself as a born-again Christian. He would fit right into this church. And,' Townsend says, `being on the same spiritual wavelength counts for a lot.'

Pastor WILL TOWNSEND: Would I follow a Muslim when they're not in line with my beliefs? Absolutely not. So, yeah, the idea that he is a Christian, that he is listening to the word of the Lord, that he's asking the Lord's wisdom, that he's saying, `Guide me,' OK, yeah, I mean, I trust that.

HAGERTY: Indeed, some religious leaders are uncomfortable that Mr. Bush often wears his theology like a badge, but Richard Cizik says in doing so, the president rallies his evangelical supporters.

Mr. CIZIK: Evangelicals resonate to George Bush's leadership because of the language that he uses, which is often theological.

HAGERTY: As when the president cataloged the abuses of Saddam Hussein's regime in his State of the Union address.

SOUNDBITE OF STATE OF THE UNION ADDRESS

President GEORGE W. BUSH: Electronic shock, burning with hot irons, dripping acid on the skin, mutilation with electric drills, cutting out tongues, and rape. If this is not evil, then evil has no meaning.

SOUNDBITE OF APPLAUSE

Mr. CIZIK: He talks about Saddam Hussein as evil.

HAGERTY: Richard Cizik.

Mr. CIZIK: Evangelicals believe that, in fact, evil does come from the depravity of the human heart, and there are evil people, and Saddam Hussein is one. And so the language which Bush has used resonates in the heart and the minds of the American evangelical.

HAGERTY: Richard Land of the Southern Baptist Convention says even if Bush were not a born-again Christian, evangelicals are inclined to fall behind rather than stand against their government in times of war. Why? Because according to the New Testament, he says, it is God who places people in positions of governmental authority.

Mr. RICHARD LAND (Southern Baptist Convention): Romans 13 makes it very clear that, `God ordained the civil magistrate to punish those who do evil and to reward those do that which is right.' So, clearly, the civil magistrate is ordained by God to use various means, up to and including lethal force, to punish evildoers.

HAGERTY: The Southern Baptists are one of the only conservative denominations that have openly supported President Bush. Why haven't others? Well, back at the evangelical church in Virginia, parishioner Randy Falt(ph) says no one wants to promote war, especially one with religious overtones.

Mr. RANDY FALT (Parishioner): We don't want to give the impression that, you know, we're a bunch of warmongers and want to go out and conquer, in this case, Islam to replace it with Christianity. That's not the intent. The intent is to protect us.

HAGERTY: And while evangelical churches often speak out on cultural or social issues, like abortion and homosexuality, they generally keep mum about international politics. One reason, says Pastor Will Townsend, is that this type of church focuses on bringing people to a personal faith in Jesus Christ.

Pastor TOWNSEND: If I'm preaching politics, right away those people that aren't in line with what I'm preaching are not going to come through the door. So, you know, a good evangelical church that wants to bring people through the door is not going to do that.

HAGERTY: Moreover, conservative Christians are genuinely ambivalent about any possible American action because of the potential backlash against their brethren abroad. Richard Cizik at the National Association of Evangelicals says they worry that Christian missionaries working in Iraq and elsewhere, as well as a half-million Iraqi Christians, could come under attack.

Mr. CIZIK: Because in many Middle Eastern countries, the word `American' and `Christian' are synonymous, and those angry with the United States might say, `We can't do anything about the planes up there, but here's people who are linked to Americans.'

HAGERTY: Which is one reason that many evangelicals are so upset with statements by Jerry Falwell, who recently called Muslims `terrorists,' or by Pat Robertson, who made this comment on his television show.

Mr. PAT ROBERTSON: (From television program) This is worse than the Nazis. Adolf Hitler was bad, but what the Muslims want to do to the Jews is worse.

HAGERTY: In recent months, there's been a spike in violence against Christians: missionaries attacked in Yemen, Lebanon, the Philippines and India; Christian churches attacked in Nigeria, Algeria, Indonesia and Pakistan. Richard Mouw is president of Fuller Theological Seminary, and he's one of the few outspoken evangelical opponents of the war.

Mr. RICHARD MOUW (President, Fuller Theological Seminary): And while we can't posit one-to-one correspondence between something that some prominent televangelist says about Islam, we can certainly worry that those inflammatory statements stimulate further antagonism on the part of Muslim extremists.

HAGERTY: A major reason evangelical churches don't speak out is that many of the biggest ones don't have a platform to do so, says Michael Cromartie, an expert on evangelicalism at the Ethics and Public Policy Center. Consider that church in Virginia. It's got several thousand attenders, but it's an independent church, unaffiliated with any denomination. Cromartie says these independent churches have numbers, but no national clout.

Mr. MICHAEL CROMARTIE (Ethics and Public Policy Center): There is no central bureaucracy in Wheaton, Illinois, or Colorado Springs where one can say, `The mainline churches have issued a negative critique of the president's foreign policy. We would like to issue a countercritique,' because there's nobody to call a meeting.

HAGERTY: But even if nobody's calling a meeting or making pronouncements, Cromartie says, the White House knows they're out there representing millions upon millions of silent supporters.

Mr. CROMARTIE: Just cold political calculus tells you if you had 50 million evangelicals rallying in downtown Washington against the war, it would cause great disturbance, but they're not there and they won't be.

HAGERTY: And so the White House is counting on their support, as it inches ever closer to a war with Iraq. Barbara Bradley Hagerty, NPR News, Washington.
15 posted on 03/06/2003 1:33:21 AM PST by Robert_Paulson2
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To: Dec31,1999
I very sticky wicket.
16 posted on 03/06/2003 1:36:05 AM PST by Cincinatus' Wife
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To: Cincinatus' Wife
Good thing the Pope isn't infallible in these matters.
17 posted on 03/06/2003 1:36:42 AM PST by litany_of_lies
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To: Cincinatus' Wife
From "A Nation at War", a message from Dr. Charles Stanley aired on "In Touch" February 17, 2003:

Ecclesiastes 3:8 states that there is a "time for war and a time for peace." In these times of warfare, we often ask, "How should we respond? What should be our attitude?" We will find biblical answers for these questions when we explore the ultimate issue: What does the Word of God say about warfare?

When a nation goes to war, God’s people need to fully understand their heavenly Father’s viewpoint about this matter. Naturally, God is not excited about war. He does not enjoy bloodshed and vengeance. However, He is dealing with a world of people who have a fallen nature—sinful, wicked and vile. Romans 3:10-11,15-17 describes mankind without God: "…there is none righteous, not even one; there is none who understands, there is none who seeks for God. . . . Their feet are swift to shed blood, destruction and misery are in their paths, and the path of peace they have not known."

God battles with people who oppose Him, who fight against Him and His followers. So, even though He hates war, God is not against it. Throughout the Old Testament, there are examples of God using warfare to carry out His plans, to punish the wicked and preserve His people (Deut. 9:4-6; Deut. 20; Jer. 5; Numbers 33:55-56). You may think, "How could God do that?" He says in Isaiah 55:9, "My ways are higher than your ways and My thoughts are higher than your thoughts." God has divine reasons for choosing to use war as a vehicle to accomplish His will.

In Scripture, God clearly establishes the government’s responsibilities and authority over us, as well. In Romans 13:1 and 4, Paul writes, "every person is to be in subjection to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those which exist are established by God. . .for it [the government] is a minister of God to you for good. But if you do what is evil, be afraid; for it does not bear the sword for nothing; for it is a minister of God, an avenger who brings wrath on the one who practices evil."

The government is ordained by God with the right to promote good and restrain evil. This includes wickedness that exists within the nation, as well as any wicked persons or countries that threaten foreign nations. Obviously, there are times when a country should not go to war; but there are also times when, if a nation does not do so, they suffer the consequences. Therefore, a government has biblical grounds to go to war in the nation’s defense or to liberate others in the world who are enslaved.

You may think, "Well, how do we reconcile that with what Jesus said about loving our enemies and turning the other cheek?" (Luke 6:27-30) In that passage, Jesus was speaking to us as individuals. If someone treats us badly, we should love him anyway. We can pray for our enemies, and do good to those who hate us. The way someone treats an individual is one thing; the way he treats an entire nation is a completely different issue. The Bible teaches that it is the responsibility of the government’s leaders to protect the nation against those who would destroy it.

The Bible also instructs citizens in the proper way to respond when their country goes to war. For example, it is a violation of the Word of God to refuse to defend your country if ordered. Recall Romans 13:1-2: "every person is to be in subjection to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God. . .Therefore whoever resists authority has opposed the ordinance of God; and they who have opposed will receive condemnation upon themselves." According to this verse, we’re to be submissive to the laws of the land. The only reason we have for disobeying the government is if it requires us to behave in a way that clearly violates some specific verse or command of God (Acts 5:27-32).

Someone might say, "But I can’t go to war because shooting the enemy would be murder, and the Bible says ‘you shall not murder’"(Exodus 20:13). Actually, when a man in combat shoots his enemy under the command of the government, without personal hatred, he is not committing murder. Instead, he is simply being obedient to the purpose for which he is fighting. To commit murder, a person must have vengeance and hatred against another. Many men have died on the battlefield without animosity toward anyone--they were fighting for a cause, defending or freeing their land. Therefore, if called, it is a citizen’s national and biblical responsibility to defend his country.

Even if we do not actually participate in the fighting, we are also called to create unity and harmony within the country. We need to support whatever decisions our nation makes, as long as they do not directly violate the Word of God. How can we justify the protests and marches against war? I understand that, in America, for example, we have a right to express our different opinions. However, there comes a time when our personal opinion is not a priority. The only reason we have the freedom to protest in this country is because thousands were willing to die for that liberty in the past.

Instead of resisting, we should offer to serve the war effort in any way possible during this time, especially by encouraging and helping the families of our soldiers. And the most important and powerful thing we can do for our nation is pray. Pray for our President, leaders, military, and even our enemies. God honors the prayers of His children and expects us to support those in authority.

Despite the many different opinions and philosophies about war, the most important consideration is God’s viewpoint. Throughout Scripture there is evidence that God favors war for divine reasons and sometimes uses it to accomplish His will. He has also given governments and their citizens very specific responsibilities in regards to this matter. This is a frightening time for all of the world’s citizens, but it is also a time for God’s people to rise up as a unified body against the global threat of evil and terror. I challenge you, as a child of God, to respond to this conflict as He desires: with an attitude of prayer, submission, and an unwavering dependence upon your heavenly Father.

Based on this, I would say that President Bush is perfectly justified in engaging in this war, and does not have to be concerned that he is displeasing God.

I wish that everyone who claims the mantle of "Christianity" would actually follow Christ and His commandments instead of relying on their own "wisdom" to guide their words and actions.

18 posted on 03/06/2003 1:38:19 AM PST by GiovannaNicoletta
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To: litany_of_lies; GiovannaNicoletta
The Church understands politics and appearances. The Pope knows he can't come out and call for the removal of Saddam by force. If he did we'd have an out-and-out, world-wide religious war. Of course we aren't far from that now but the Pope doesn't want his words to escalate things. He needed to do this. Bush and our troops need to do the heavy lifting. God bless us all.
19 posted on 03/06/2003 1:48:02 AM PST by Cincinatus' Wife
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To: Cincinatus' Wife
One of the world's biggest mosques is built within bomb-throwing distance of the Vatican.
20 posted on 03/06/2003 2:04:34 AM PST by metesky (My retirement fund is holding steady @ $.05 a can)
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