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Bush discounts pope's anti-war plea*** Cardinal Pio Laghi, a former papal nuncio to the United States, gave Mr. Bush a letter from Pope John Paul II that outlined the pontiff's moral objections to an attack on Iraq. But the president countered that much good could come from such a war. "A disarmed Iraq is something that makes the world both safer and better," a senior administration official said after the meeting. "Better for the Iraqi people, better for the region, better for the world." The official added: "As president, he has the responsibility to protect the American people and to protect America, which is an important factor in his thinking."***
1 posted on 03/06/2003 12:40:07 AM PST by Cincinatus' Wife
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To: Cincinatus' Wife
With all due respect your Excellency, "illegal"?
2 posted on 03/06/2003 12:54:25 AM PST by bayareablues
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To: Cincinatus' Wife
Pope's message to Moses - war against Midianites will be 'unjust and illegal'
3 posted on 03/06/2003 12:55:33 AM PST by Sir Gawain
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To: Cincinatus' Wife
G'morning, btw :^)
5 posted on 03/06/2003 12:59:21 AM PST by JohnHuang2
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To: Cincinatus' Wife

The Beltway news media is all abuzz over NEWSWEEK's bombshell cover story -- a devastating account of a mushrooming White House scandal which, till now, only lurked below the surface.

Face it: Every White House, sooner or later, gets hit with 'The Big One' -- a major scandal -- and I'm afraid, for Bush, this may be it.

As far as White House scandals, you probably think you've heard and seen 'em all, I bet. Presidential perjury, obstruction of justice, selling the White House, stealing the White House, trashing the White House, pardons-for-sale, vandalism, larceny, embezzlement, seduction of interns -- we got all these and more under the most ethical administration in history alone.

Well, ya ain't heard nothing yet, folks.

Get a load of this: "George W. Bush rises ahead of the dawn most days," writes NEWSWEEK reporter Howard Fineman, and "he goes off to a quiet place to read alone."

Reading alone -- that's the Big Scandal?

Wrong. What's he reading, ummmm?

Detective Fineman lays out the damaging details rocking the White House tonight: "His text isn't news summaries or the overnight intelligence dispatches...It's not recreational reading...IT'S A BOOK OF EVANGELICAL MINI-SERMONS," Oswald Chambers', '"My Utmost for His Highest"!

Scary stuff, yes, but that's not all.

"This presidency" Fineman continues in his tale of White House horrors, "is the most resolutely 'faith-based' in modern times, an enterprise founded, supported and guided by trust in the temporal and spiritual power of God."

Brace yourself, here's the bombshell revelation: "The Bush administration is dedicated to the idea that there is an answer to societal problems here and to terrorism abroad: give everyone, everywhere, the freedom to find God, too."

Bush is a born-again Christian! And he prays, too! And he reads the Bible!

While the White House may have weathered initial blows from these startling revelations, the bottom line is the bottom line: Bush is way, way TOO CHRISTIAN, say the newsies!

But wait: "An envoy sent by Pope John Paul on Wednesday," Reuters reports, "urged President George W. Bush to avoid war and work with the United Nations to seek a peaceful resolution to the Iraqi crisis."

Cardinal Pio Laghi, during his private White House meeting with the President, conveyed a letter from the Pope which read, in part, "I ask the Lord to inspire you to search for a way to a stable peace, the noblest of human endeavors."

Reuters: "Asked whether he had persuaded Bush to rule out war as an outcome to the Iraqi situation, Laghi said: 'You have to ask him.'"

The answer, in other words, was NO! Bush told the Pope no!

So now the media says BUSH ISN'T CHRISTIAN ENOUGH!

So the week began with the media griping and fussing and carping that Bush was too Christian for the job, that his fervent faith only alienates Muslims and the Arab world.

But here we are, barely four days later, and Bush gets slammed for not being fervent enough in keeping with Christian principles and faith.

Don't ya love such displays of unflinching consistency from our rabidly fair-minded, detached and objective news media?

But mull this one over: With the very open Bush-Pope split on Iraq, claims in the Arab world that Bush is a crusader -- a notion NEWSWEEK sought to stoke with it's Bush and God cover story -- will ring more hollow than ever.

Anyway, that's...
My two cents...
"JohnHuang2"


6 posted on 03/06/2003 1:00:45 AM PST by JohnHuang2
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To: Cincinatus' Wife
..Laghi said before going to war the United Nations should take into account "the grave consequences of such an armed conflict: the suffering of the people of Iraq and those involved in the military operation, a further instability in the region and a new gulf between Islam and Christianity."...

Those three factors can be quickly discounted.

The people of Iraq are already suffering, the region is perenially unstable, and there is a yawning gulf between Islam and Christianity- principally caused by ideological upheavals amongst Muslims themselves. With the greatest of respect to his Holiness, there's nothing in this message worthy of serious reflection.

7 posted on 03/06/2003 1:01:54 AM PST by Byron_the_Aussie
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To: Cincinatus' Wife
But of course, his condonance of pedofilia is just and legal. What a laugh!
9 posted on 03/06/2003 1:19:34 AM PST by Dec31,1999 (Renegade)
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To: Cincinatus' Wife
Good thing the Pope isn't infallible in these matters.
17 posted on 03/06/2003 1:36:42 AM PST by litany_of_lies
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To: Cincinatus' Wife
From "A Nation at War", a message from Dr. Charles Stanley aired on "In Touch" February 17, 2003:

Ecclesiastes 3:8 states that there is a "time for war and a time for peace." In these times of warfare, we often ask, "How should we respond? What should be our attitude?" We will find biblical answers for these questions when we explore the ultimate issue: What does the Word of God say about warfare?

When a nation goes to war, God’s people need to fully understand their heavenly Father’s viewpoint about this matter. Naturally, God is not excited about war. He does not enjoy bloodshed and vengeance. However, He is dealing with a world of people who have a fallen nature—sinful, wicked and vile. Romans 3:10-11,15-17 describes mankind without God: "…there is none righteous, not even one; there is none who understands, there is none who seeks for God. . . . Their feet are swift to shed blood, destruction and misery are in their paths, and the path of peace they have not known."

God battles with people who oppose Him, who fight against Him and His followers. So, even though He hates war, God is not against it. Throughout the Old Testament, there are examples of God using warfare to carry out His plans, to punish the wicked and preserve His people (Deut. 9:4-6; Deut. 20; Jer. 5; Numbers 33:55-56). You may think, "How could God do that?" He says in Isaiah 55:9, "My ways are higher than your ways and My thoughts are higher than your thoughts." God has divine reasons for choosing to use war as a vehicle to accomplish His will.

In Scripture, God clearly establishes the government’s responsibilities and authority over us, as well. In Romans 13:1 and 4, Paul writes, "every person is to be in subjection to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those which exist are established by God. . .for it [the government] is a minister of God to you for good. But if you do what is evil, be afraid; for it does not bear the sword for nothing; for it is a minister of God, an avenger who brings wrath on the one who practices evil."

The government is ordained by God with the right to promote good and restrain evil. This includes wickedness that exists within the nation, as well as any wicked persons or countries that threaten foreign nations. Obviously, there are times when a country should not go to war; but there are also times when, if a nation does not do so, they suffer the consequences. Therefore, a government has biblical grounds to go to war in the nation’s defense or to liberate others in the world who are enslaved.

You may think, "Well, how do we reconcile that with what Jesus said about loving our enemies and turning the other cheek?" (Luke 6:27-30) In that passage, Jesus was speaking to us as individuals. If someone treats us badly, we should love him anyway. We can pray for our enemies, and do good to those who hate us. The way someone treats an individual is one thing; the way he treats an entire nation is a completely different issue. The Bible teaches that it is the responsibility of the government’s leaders to protect the nation against those who would destroy it.

The Bible also instructs citizens in the proper way to respond when their country goes to war. For example, it is a violation of the Word of God to refuse to defend your country if ordered. Recall Romans 13:1-2: "every person is to be in subjection to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God. . .Therefore whoever resists authority has opposed the ordinance of God; and they who have opposed will receive condemnation upon themselves." According to this verse, we’re to be submissive to the laws of the land. The only reason we have for disobeying the government is if it requires us to behave in a way that clearly violates some specific verse or command of God (Acts 5:27-32).

Someone might say, "But I can’t go to war because shooting the enemy would be murder, and the Bible says ‘you shall not murder’"(Exodus 20:13). Actually, when a man in combat shoots his enemy under the command of the government, without personal hatred, he is not committing murder. Instead, he is simply being obedient to the purpose for which he is fighting. To commit murder, a person must have vengeance and hatred against another. Many men have died on the battlefield without animosity toward anyone--they were fighting for a cause, defending or freeing their land. Therefore, if called, it is a citizen’s national and biblical responsibility to defend his country.

Even if we do not actually participate in the fighting, we are also called to create unity and harmony within the country. We need to support whatever decisions our nation makes, as long as they do not directly violate the Word of God. How can we justify the protests and marches against war? I understand that, in America, for example, we have a right to express our different opinions. However, there comes a time when our personal opinion is not a priority. The only reason we have the freedom to protest in this country is because thousands were willing to die for that liberty in the past.

Instead of resisting, we should offer to serve the war effort in any way possible during this time, especially by encouraging and helping the families of our soldiers. And the most important and powerful thing we can do for our nation is pray. Pray for our President, leaders, military, and even our enemies. God honors the prayers of His children and expects us to support those in authority.

Despite the many different opinions and philosophies about war, the most important consideration is God’s viewpoint. Throughout Scripture there is evidence that God favors war for divine reasons and sometimes uses it to accomplish His will. He has also given governments and their citizens very specific responsibilities in regards to this matter. This is a frightening time for all of the world’s citizens, but it is also a time for God’s people to rise up as a unified body against the global threat of evil and terror. I challenge you, as a child of God, to respond to this conflict as He desires: with an attitude of prayer, submission, and an unwavering dependence upon your heavenly Father.

Based on this, I would say that President Bush is perfectly justified in engaging in this war, and does not have to be concerned that he is displeasing God.

I wish that everyone who claims the mantle of "Christianity" would actually follow Christ and His commandments instead of relying on their own "wisdom" to guide their words and actions.

18 posted on 03/06/2003 1:38:19 AM PST by GiovannaNicoletta
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To: Cincinatus' Wife
One of the world's biggest mosques is built within bomb-throwing distance of the Vatican.
20 posted on 03/06/2003 2:04:34 AM PST by metesky (My retirement fund is holding steady @ $.05 a can)
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To: Cincinatus' Wife
People, just don't seem to get it. Mr. Bush is doing is duty (in this case) as outlined in our constitution and unlike his predecessor isn't interested in what it will take to get "Democrat Catholics" votes.

BTW, if his holiness is so concerned about right and wrong, he might first start dealing with catholic Democrats that support and promote the murder of unborn children.

25 posted on 03/06/2003 2:49:05 AM PST by ImpBill ("You are either with US or against US!")
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To: Cincinatus' Wife
The Pope would be better off attending to the plank in his eye, and take care of pedophile priests...
34 posted on 03/06/2003 3:33:43 AM PST by GodBlessRonaldReagan (where is Scotty Moore when we need him most?)
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To: Cincinatus' Wife
I wonder just who the "pope" is that is speaking, John or the bureaucracy. There is so much that is inconsistent with the way he once was that makes me think others are speaking for him and he is possibly in age related dementia. Too different from what would be expected from one who was under Soviet tyranny.
38 posted on 03/06/2003 4:04:50 AM PST by KeyWest
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To: Cincinatus' Wife
We need the Holy Father's permission to defend ourselves from evil? The Church has certainly changed a great deal since the Crusades. Instead of fighting the evil of Islamofascism, it seeks to turn the other cheek and watch silently while Christians are cleansed out of the Middle East. This from the same Catholic Church that kept silent when Muslims slaughtered Christians in Lebanon for decades and keeps silent even now while Christians are being annihilated in the Sudan. Yes Pope John Paul II, your counsel this war is illegal and unjust to our President is contradicted by your Church's own passivity and standing by in the face of evil that Muslims have inflicted upon Christians for centuries. As for our President, he not you, took an oath to defend the United States from harm and that is his first and foremost responsibility. Perhaps when the Vatican is obliterated by a 9-11 type incident the Holy Father can get back and tell us then whether the use of force to wipe out evil is still unjust and illegal. I think the Pope needs to reread the Bible.
39 posted on 03/06/2003 4:05:29 AM PST by goldstategop
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To: Cincinatus' Wife
"...a U.S.-led war against Iraq... would be unjust and illegal."

No, a Church hierachy that allows and encourages the rape of children by homosexual priests is unjust and illegal.

42 posted on 03/06/2003 4:25:41 AM PST by Psalm 73 ("Gentlemen, you can't fight in here - this is a war room".)
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To: Cincinatus' Wife
Doesn't this doddering old pederast have anything better to do, like presiding over the blessing and consecration of a new phone booth?
50 posted on 03/06/2003 5:14:45 AM PST by Treebeard
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To: Cincinatus' Wife
So, why doesn't the Pope just excommunicate Bush and get it over with? Then he will have done his utmost and he can move on to the next topic that he wants to interfere with. /sarcasm
53 posted on 03/06/2003 5:21:30 AM PST by Clara Lou
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To: Cincinatus' Wife
"The growing tension with the Vatican could undercut Bush's efforts to court Catholic voters.

This is insulting. Everyone in the press believes the rightness of an action, any action, is judged by the number of votes it gains or loses.

54 posted on 03/06/2003 5:26:21 AM PST by FryingPan101 (I love Rummy!)
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To: Cincinatus' Wife
My, what a vicious lot. I don't understand why people who have never given a second thought to what the Vatican has to say feel the need to become so venomous.

And then turn around and claim to be Christians themselves.

57 posted on 03/06/2003 5:44:05 AM PST by Cap'n Crunch
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To: Cincinatus' Wife
Recent polls suggest that so far the Vatican's influence has been limited in the United States.

As it has been for the last 30 years. The idea that Bush's status with Catholics will be adversely affected by his desire to defend the country is ludicrous.

61 posted on 03/06/2003 5:54:08 AM PST by sinkspur
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To: Cincinatus' Wife
I am sure the Pope is a good man.

But, he is just a man. And I am sure he has no access to intel reports in the oval office.

I wonder if he would have given the President of the US the "permission" to attack Afganistan before 9/11.

I doubt it.
71 posted on 03/06/2003 6:22:23 AM PST by roses of sharon
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