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OK for same-sex marriages sought in N.J.
The Record of Hackensack ^ | 01.15.03

Posted on 01/15/2003 9:32:34 AM PST by Coleus

OK for same-sex marriages sought in N.J.

Wednesday, January 15, 2003

By RUTH PADAWER Staff Writer

More than 200 of the faithful squeezed into the small church hall, applauding wildly as believers offered testimonials of love. One by one, they bore witness to the power of commitments. They were met with hoots and whistles from an adoring flock.

This was no religious revival. Instead, it was a pep rally for gay rights in New Jersey. With a lawsuit pending in state court over same-sex marriage, gay-rights leaders this week unveiled the first of 10 meetings designed to rouse sympathizers from Cape May to Teaneck.

"My name is Alicia and this is my wife, Saundra," said plaintiff Alicia Toby, her hand draped across Saundra Heath's knee, as the crowd broke into applause. For 14 years, she and Heath have been together, raising their children and now enjoying grandchildren. "We pay first-class taxes and we're not going to tolerate being treated like second-class citizens."

Toby handed the microphone to Heath, who hesitated, then blinked back tears. "I'm so nervous," Heath said haltingly. "I want to cry."

From the audience, a man called out, "That's all right. We're all family now."

Monday evening, the mood was jubilant inside the grand mansion that houses Morristown Unitarian Fellowship. Three of the seven couples suing the state sat before an audience shoehorned into the sanctuary's 180 seats. Other spectators leaned against the wall or spilled into the foyer.

The first plaintiff to speak was Maureen Kilian, who squeezed her partner's hand as their two children swung their feet. The children are legally related to each other, and each mother is legally related, through adoption, to both children. But the women have no legally recognized relationship.

"Cindy and I have been together for 28 years," Kilian said, "and we're ready to get married." The crowd went wild.

Lambda Legal - the group suing the state - and the state's Gay Activist Alliance are hosting the meetings to alert their constituents of their plan to push for victories in both the court and the State House. Though the approach is two-pronged, the message Monday night was singular: get involved.

"It is our responsibility as activists and members of the community to support both the judicial and legislative fight," said Laura Pople, head of the New Jersey Lesbian and Gay Coalition. "We are urging people to stay informed, get active, and be ready to respond."

As plaintiffs talked, volunteers worked the crowd, collecting signatures on petitions, and addresses for mailing lists for legislative alerts. The plan is to turn constituents in every legislative district into soldiers in the battle for civil rights and to reach out to other New Jerseyans.

"I'm your neighbor next door," Toby urged people to say. "I ride the bus with you, I sit next to you at lunch. ... I am the face of gay and lesbian America."

The suit was filed in June in Hudson County and is moving to Mercer County at the attorney general's request. It argues that denying same-sex couples the benefits and responsibilities of marriage violates their constitutional right to equal protection and privacy. The state's first response is due at the end of the month; the case is expected eventually to reach the state Supreme Court by mid-2004.

The state's position is ironic, said Mark Lewis, an Episcopal minister in Secaucus who is a plaintiff with his partner of 10 years, Dennis Winslow, another Episcopal priest.

"The state of New Jersey believes we are perfectly fit to officiate at wedding ceremonies," he said. "But it says we are not fit to be married ourselves. It's saying, 'You're good enough to work for us, but you're not good enough to receive what we have to offer.'"

Same-sex marriages are not legal anywhere in the United States, though gay activists have filed lawsuits in several states. In Vermont, gay couples are allowed "civil unions," granting them some benefits of marriage. In Hawaii, the court ruled that same-sex couples had a right to marry, but voters intervened, amending the Hawaii Constitution so state legislators could limit marriage to a union between a man and a woman. In New Jersey, constitutional amendments are more difficult to obtain, but Lambda is leaving nothing to chance.

"It's possible to win in court but not in the court of public opinion," said Michael Adams, Lambda's lawyer for the case.

Already, several traditional-values groups have vowed to fight the suit, though they have called no public meetings and filed no papers with the court.

"If people want to live together outside the common code of marriage - that is, between one man and one woman - that's their prerogative," said Len Deo, head of the New Jersey Family Policy Council in Parsippany. "But marriage is the one institution that supports the family and once you start redefining all these relationships, it becomes a mess."

On Monday night, gay-rights leaders urged support for a bill that Assemblywoman Loretta Weinberg, D-Teaneck, has promised to introduce, providing some marital benefits to adults living in an "emotionally and economically committed relationship."

The plan would cover not only same-sex couples, but also heterosexual couples, such as senior citizens who live together but avoid marriage because it would reduce their Social Security benefits. But it would not change responsibilities toward children, and would not confer joint-property status.

By evening's end, 217 people had signed the petition. The mailing list grew fat, too. Several couples wore wedding bands; a few talked of longtime engagements that will proceed no further until same-sex marriage is allowed. Outside, cars in the parking lot bore bumper stickers with slogans of the movement: "Hate is not a family value."


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Extended News; US: New Jersey
KEYWORDS: catholiclist; episcopal; episcopalian; family; familyvalues; gay; gomorrah; homosexual; homosexualagenda; lambdalegal; marriage; morristown; newjersey; prisoners; unitarian; weinberg
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To: All
"Outside, cars in the parking lot bore bumper stickers with slogans of the movement: "Hate is not a family value."

Homosexuality is definitely not a family value either

21 posted on 01/15/2003 11:47:01 AM PST by SunnyUsa
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To: Coleus
"Hate is not a family value."

Neither is perversity.

22 posted on 01/15/2003 12:08:14 PM PST by HumanaeVitae
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To: TightSqueeze
Does this behavior fall under the current sodomy laws?

sodomy has been legal in new jersey since 1979.

few states still have these laws on the books and those that do are seeing them systematically overturned in the courts.

23 posted on 01/15/2003 1:58:59 PM PST by jethropalerobber
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To: SunnyUsa
Homosexuality is definitely not a family value either

and yet homosexuals continue to have families. they must not be getting your message.

24 posted on 01/15/2003 2:23:22 PM PST by jethropalerobber
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To: Coleus
The problem with this is that we were made to reproduce and we can't if governments and societies allow this.

Once this and cloning is legal can pretty much get rid of all of the straight people.....LOL

All kidding aside though I agree that the proper way to reproduce would/could be eliminated. As long as people are willing to have babies for other couples though there will always be a way to reproduce even without cloning.

25 posted on 01/15/2003 2:49:03 PM PST by Mixer
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To: Mixer
Surrogate Mothers? Remember the Nancy White/Baby M Case in NJ. Made headlines throughout the world.

http://www.tourolaw.edu/Publications/internationallawrev/vol6/part8.html#RFn101

http://www.people.fas.harvard.edu/~mponeill/justice/handout5.html
26 posted on 01/15/2003 3:36:30 PM PST by Coleus (RU 486 Kills Babies)
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To: jethropalerobber
sodomy has been legal in new jersey since 1979.

Well that sure is a load off my mind.
I am happy to know those old farts living in sin, can continue to roll in the hay unabated, without the threat of a swat-team breaking down their door and arresting them for doing the big nasty.
Nod-nod-wink-wink, say no more.

27 posted on 01/15/2003 3:57:35 PM PST by TightSqueeze
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To: Coleus
well let's follow the other states too mantra........
28 posted on 01/15/2003 5:24:34 PM PST by Sub-Driver
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To: Coleus
Only in NJ

Aw, you're giving our little state too much credit. I am sure this is a regular thing in Ca. Not that that is my choice state to raise my family either.

29 posted on 01/18/2003 8:14:16 AM PST by RepubMommy
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To: Coleus
When was political power shifted from our elected officials to judges? Is this something NJ should have voted on?
30 posted on 09/29/2003 2:23:10 PM PDT by Calpernia (Innocence seldom utters outraged shrieks. Guilt does.)
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To: 2ndMostConservativeBrdMember; afraidfortherepublic; Alas; al_c; american colleen; annalex; ...

 Jerseyans support civil unions for gay couples

Poll shows liberal state attitude differs from national numbers

Monday, September 29, 2003

BY JUDY PEET
Star-Ledger Staff

They may not endorse same-sex marriage, but a majority of New Jerseyans favor "civil unions" that would confer many of the same legal benefits of matrimony to lesbian and gay couples, according to the latest Star-Ledger/Eagleton-Rutgers Poll.

In responses much more liberal than previous national polls, 52 percent of New Jersey residents support civil unions and six out of 10 said same-sex couples should be entitled to health insurance and Social Security benefits through their partners.

Even on the subject of marriage rites -- a topic the respondents found more difficult to accept -- support for legalizing gay marriage ran 43 percent overall and as high as 64 percent among younger New Jerseyans, the poll found.

By comparison, a recent national poll by ABC News found that only 37 percent of Americans favor legalizing gay marriage and only 40 percent support civil unions.

"When it comes to the legal status of homosexual partnerships, New Jerseyans tend to be more progressive than the nation as a whole, particularly with regard to the idea of civil unions," said Patrick Murray, the poll's associate director.

Murray said, however, that the responses were very much age related. While support for same-sex marriage and benefits was strong among young New Jerseyans, the majority of respondents over age 50 favored neither.

"It's just the way I was raised," said William Weber, 65, of Hardwick. "I think gay people have a right to live how they want, but I don't think it's right."

Several respondents distinguished between legal and moral issues.

"If a gay couple have been in a relationship for 20 years, they are entitled to the same legal rights as anybody else," said Karen Cavalieri, 43, of Rochelle Park. "But marriage is a religious institution and in the eyes of God, I don't think it's right."

Perhaps the most surprising results of the poll -- particularly after a summer when the Vatican aggressively argued against legalizing gay marriage -- were that the state's Catholics supported same-sex unions significantly more than Protestants.

Forty-three percent of Catholics said they favored same-sex marriage, compared to 32 percent of Protestants polled. The difference may be less about religion, however, than age.

"The Protestant population in New Jersey tends to be skewed toward older adults," Murray said. "And it is the age-based disparity in opinion ... that we are seeing in these denominational results."

On the question of legalizing marriage, the favorable responses ranged from 64 percent among those ages 18 to 29, to only 27 percent for those ages 50 and older. Even in the over-50 age group, however, four out of 10 people still favored civil unions.

As with other groups, the Catholics who supported gay marriage tended to be younger members of the church.

"I may not be a traditional Catholic, but I wish the church could be more flexible because there are gays who are very serious about their faith," said Elizabeth Roberts, 24, of Manchester.

"Maybe I could burn in hell for thinking gays are the same as anybody else and entitled to the same rights, but I just don't think it's that big a deal," said Terrance Farrell, 27, of North Brunswick.

The issue is becoming a big deal in New Jersey, a key state in the gay marriage battlefield. Seven gay couples have filed a lawsuit challenging the constitutionality of a state law barring same-sex marriage, and there is a civil union bill pending in the Legislature that would extend benefits to gay and unmarried heterosexual couples.

Gay rights activists said the campaign against legalizing gay marriage -- one actively supported by the Vatican, the religious right and the White House -- could account for a drop in the positive response in New Jersey in comparison to a similar poll released in July.

That Zogby International Poll, commissioned by advocates for legalizing same-sex unions, found that 55 percent of New Jerseyans overall and 57 percent of Catholics favored such action.

"While the new numbers may be lower, they still show nearly half the state supports legalizing gay marriage," said Michael Adams, spokesman for the Lambda Legal Defense & Education Fund, a nonprofit advocacy group for gays that is lobbying for New Jersey's proposed domestic partner bill. "And this is after the right wing spent the entire summer trying to scare everyone about homosexuals."

A different spin on the numbers was offered by John Tomicki, executive director of the League of American Families, a group strongly opposed to same-sex marriage.

"These numbers show what we have always said, that the Zogby poll was flawed and a majority of the public support marriage as being defined solely as a union between one man and one woman," Tomicki said. "At best, and we don't necessarily agree, the public is evenly divided on the issue and that should not be enough to change public policy."

The Eagleton poll also found that 53 percent of state residents believe New Jersey government should recognize a same-sex marriage if it were performed in another state and the couple moved here.

Currently that is a moot point, since no state allows legal same-sex marriage, although Vermont did enact a law three years ago establishing civil unions for gays and lesbians.


31 posted on 09/29/2003 2:34:10 PM PDT by Coleus (Only half the patients who go into an abortion clinic come out alive.)
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To: Coleus
Thanks for the information!
32 posted on 09/29/2003 2:37:38 PM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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To: Coleus
As with other groups, the Catholics who supported gay marriage tended to be younger members of the church.

Of course they did. They watch MTV, where anything is normal, don't they?

By the way Coleus, excellent choice of colour for your highlighting.

33 posted on 09/29/2003 2:42:02 PM PDT by Cagey
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To: Cagey
Isn't the Governor firmly "behind" this as well?
34 posted on 09/29/2003 2:48:14 PM PDT by TheExploited (R-Illinois)
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To: Coleus
Ever notice how in Jersey elections, men are evenly split or lean Republican, but women vote OVERWHELMINGLY Democratic (unless the candidate is Christie Toad Witless).
35 posted on 09/29/2003 4:34:34 PM PDT by Clemenza (East side, West side, all around the town. Tripping the light fantastic on the sidewalks of New York)
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To: Cagey
By the way Coleus, excellent choice of colour for your highlighting.>>

Ah you noticed. Yes, I agree with you on the mtv issue, unfortunately many freepers allow their children to watch that trash, it's not Viacom's #11 money maker only because democrats watch it.
36 posted on 09/29/2003 6:27:28 PM PDT by Coleus (Only half the patients who go into an abortion clinic come out alive.)
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To: John O
You're right, of course.
37 posted on 09/29/2003 6:29:27 PM PDT by Kevin Curry (McClintock would not only win, he would win in a landslide)
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To: Coleus
"I may not be a traditional Catholic, but I wish the church could be more flexible because there are gays who are very serious about their faith," said Elizabeth Roberts, 24, of Manchester.

I just can't stand ignorance running rampant. Hey Elizabeth! If they are practicing homosexual behavior, which is explicitly outlawed by the Bible (and Catholic Doctrine) then they are not serious about their faith.

Remember the second law of homosexuality:

To the mentally healthy person (heterosexual), sex is something they do
To the mentally diseased person ('homosexual'), sex is everything they are

38 posted on 09/30/2003 9:26:44 AM PDT by John O (God Save America (Please))
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To: Kevin Curry
Thanks Kevin.
39 posted on 09/30/2003 9:27:06 AM PDT by John O (God Save America (Please))
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To: jethropalerobber
Anyone who agrees with the Fag families is as twisted and sick as these homo adults who are ruining kids. Just wait until these unfortunate kids grow up. There stories will not be rosy; that is, unless they inherit the disease. In fact, Speading the Disease aptly describes gay families.
40 posted on 09/30/2003 9:39:17 AM PDT by ohioman
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